Nano in the works

[cmlp]

Hi,

You guys have inspired me to give this nano thing a go.

Picture below is a vase type container purchased from Freedom (bit like Ikea, if you don't know). It is 30 cm high with a 15 cm diameter (12", ID 6"). My calculations say this is 5.4 L. Conversion to gallons is left as an excercise to the reader.

I have also ordered 40 ultra-bright 5mm LEDs (20 white, 20 blue) for lighting purposes. Each LED is rated at approximately 10 candela. How that looks in real life... we'll just have to wait and see. My calculations equate the LEDs to a 60W fluoro, but I could be off on that.


I'll post further pictures as development proceeds.

Chris.

 

[Anonymous]

BUMP for brandon429! Someone else using LED's!

 

[cmlp]

BUMP for brandon429! Someone else using LEDs!

Where do you think I got the idea from!

Chris.

 

[brandon4291]

Thank you for that bump SeaMaiden, I think theres plenty to work with in this setup. Once again here is someone willing to invest $$ into making an LED setup, and actually get close to doing it right. Mine was not bright enough and I still spent $60 or so on the whole thing. if you've ordered 40 bulbs I applaud your commitment...

If that large array works bright enough, it will be almost NO heat (compared to what we are used to) and it will be nice for you to not have to depend on a fan to offset this common nano temperature shift. Have you seen blue LED's on zoanthids or caulastrea yet? if not, you'll soon see they will flouresce just as good as ever--and all from a bulb with a potential 5+ year life span. As far as I remember, these leds that emit blue (as opposed to shining through a blue cover) are all pretty much around the 420nM mark--that puts them all within eyeshot of standard actinic blue for our purposes.

The white on the other hand, I never had enough of them to measure photosynthetic radiation so its still out in the open as to whether or not they will grow SPS for example. I suppose if you had enough of them and supplemented Ca+/Alk well, one could. There are a few rogue sites on the net of people growing corals under all-white LEDs, but these are not validated as far as I know---not that they are untrue either.

Great luck with it,

post pics and updates please!

Brandon

 

[The Unit]

thats gona be nice buta tanklooking like that would just be asking my to knock it over...cant wait to see some pics...

 

[cmlp]

The stability of the tank has crossed my mind as well. Especially with some rock piled up on one side.

I am planning on having a brace behind it that it can rest against. It is a bit more stable at the moment as it has about 10 cm of aragonite in it.

Chris.

 

[cmlp]

Ok, got some water, live rock, aragonite and a pump now. Water is NSW (no, not New South Wales) bought from (not-so-)LFS.

LEDs have arrived, and are waiting for me to insert them into some sort of hood. Just have to decide on a power supply for them.

Currently there is a Rio 600 attached to about 30 cm of 13 mm PVC tubing with 4 screw-in sprinkler irrigation thingies for water movement. This is causing huge restriction to the pump which is making a hell of a racket. Bought a new tiny powerhead yesterday which is rated for 120 - 240 L/hr, which I hope will be a bit more appropriate.

A couple of pictures from this morning are below.

Chris.

 

[wombat1]

Wow, that's a lot smaller than I thought it was.
I take it the powerhead plumbing goes underneath the
sand, then shoots back up? Cool idea!

 

[cmlp]

Yeah, the the first pic I posted at the top of the thread probably makes it look bigger than it is.

The tubing starts at the powerhead and wraps around the perimeter of the tank ending back under the powerhead, raising it a little out of the sand.

I found that it was quite hard to bend the 13 mm tubing around such a tight radius without it crimping.

Chris.

 

[Leviathan]

Ok, you have my intrest perked now, is it possible to create a large LED array and support corals in a nano? If so, how tall can the tank be?

 

[brandon4291]

Cmlp, let me be the first to say you have that vase aquascaped very well. I can also tell you have some nice aged rock in there, it already has much color and growth... very nicely done man.


As far as running it solely with LED's, Id say yes it can be done. It will take many LED's but it will be neat to see the outcome. I called it off because my setup just wasnt large enough, at least I got an idea of what can be done and done well with a larger array. The mechanics of the power supply for your particular array can be calculated in 1 minute (as far as ohms/resistance vs. dc power supply voltage) by any savvy Radioshack kid. I had help from a good one.

PS, Im not discouraging the attempt to build this with LED's, but don't be disappointed if the white ones dont work out (being bright enough or the right spectrum). You can always buy a 13w pc setup that is common in many applications today, and exchange it with a bulb from www.petmeister.com (actinic/daylight) and run pretty much anything under it. Fit it all vertically inside a tubular canopy...yes it will only be 13watts, but your corals are so close under it the intensity is still enough.

Working with reefs the size of the one you just built has given me a pretty good eye for salinity shift. In your setup, if you make a mark on the outside of the bowl for a reference point, you'll see roughly a .003-.005 increase for every half-inch of evaporation/ If your system is going to be an open-top, it will need TOffs every one-two days depending on the heat and evap of the design. Less often if you can find or make some sort of transparent plastic/glass lid. Do not discount the idea of cutting that powerhead cord and running it up through a lid of some type--even if it doesnt seal perfectly it'll extend you topoffs an extra day or so. I think a glass shop could make a nice lid for you for about $20 dollars--worth the price for what it doesnt for the system. I used another inverted glass bowl over the top, with a cut in the weatherstripping to allow cable entry. This worked okay but not as good as cutting the cable and sealing it right.

Sorry to type a volume, but your new experimental nano has much potential and is already itchin to hold corals... dang good job.

B

 

[BallPy]

Have you gotten anywhere with the LED's?

 

[cmlp]

Yeah, sort of. I made an array of 10 x 3 leds, with each group of 3 consisting of 2 white and 1 blue. I wasn't happy with the brightness though. I need to steal the camera from work again to take some photos.

Actually, the tank is completely unlit at the moment, with the exception of some sunlight through a window nearby. It is also unheated, and with outside temperatures dropping to below 10C at the moment and the tank in an unheated room, the water temp must be getting pretty low! Any suggestions for a very small heater? I have also puchased one 18" Actinic tube for the desklamp seen in the pictures at the top. Unfortunately, the cabinet that it is show on now supports my new 33 gal tank, and I don't have room for the nano+light. I will use that lamp when I find a good place to put it and the tank.

Interestingly, there has been an explosion of copepods/amphipods/isopods (I have no idea what the differences are!) which are all over the sides of the glass. I have spotted a few filter feeding tube worm things (see attached). Each day I spin the tank around a bit to put the nano creatures and detritus in the water column for the filter feeders to chew on.

I've started seeding my new big tank with livestock from this nano! Call it a detached refugium, if you will :lol:

 

[BallPy]

That last one looks kinda like aptasia, but it is to clear.

 

[brandon4291]

Cmlp, the detail your camera will achieve is astonishing. I am as outdated as a caveman when it comes to digital pix.

Wanted to comment on your second picture, those sabellid fanworms are the primary receptor in our captive reefs for Dt's phytoplankton. These little fans will multiply threefold over two months if you give a squirt every other day of Dt's. Ive always like Dt's for increasing the quality of my LR by affecting the populations of these critters, they are exactly suited for the particulate size of this popular additive. it does not seem to affect bioload significantly when dosed as directed...

 

[cmlp]

HI Brandon,

Thanks for the comments, as usual.

The pics above were taken with a Nikon Coolpix 5000. It has a useful macro feature of being able to focus a point about 2 cm from the front of the lens which allows some pretty good closeups. Typcial of most digicams though, it is a nightmare to focus. If I had a macro lens for my Canon 35mm SLR, I think I could do even better. All the digicams (even this rather expensize Nikon) feel like toys to me. Until they can take the damn picture when I click the button, I'm not buying!

Unfortunately, DTs Phytoplankton does not appear to be available in shops in Australia. I think I will order some from the US to see what all the fuss is about :wink:

Nano is currently sitting under a 2 x 15 W fluoro lamp (as in pictures above). One actinic tube, other cool white, until I upgrade that one too.

 

[zizmans]

A good way to avoid that tank getting knocked over would be to cut an O (a ring shape, doughnut) out of wood (or whateve) and use it as a base. I'd say adhere it to the glass as well.

 

[cmlp]

Yes, I do have to think about a stand or holder. The wooden holder is a pretty good one, but I'd like a stand running up behind it also.

I've been watching this pink thing grow out of the rocks lately. Not sure exactly what it is - like most of the things in the tank!

I've been noticing a bit of green hair algae starting to grow in the tank. I did swap a bit of rock between the big tank while it was cycling, so that's probably the source. Still doing water changes every 2 weeks, as has been suggested, so I doubt nitrates are climing too high.

 

[pulse13]

cmlp, your LED calculations are way off. If you're using the brightest most efficient LEDs available, they are only about 2 lumens for each 5mm white and <1 lumen for blue. So 20blues +20whites = about 60 lumens total. A 55w PC produces 4000+ lumens for white and 1000+ lumens for blue. Lumens, not candelas, are a measure of the total light output and used to rate efficiencies of bulbs. LEDs also do produce heat, a lot more than PCs considering they are 1/10 - 1/3 as efficient. A 5mm LED is < .1 watt so its hard to notice, but its very noticable with a 5watt luxeon star LED which requires a heat sink and has its life reduced to 1000 hours due to the operating temperature.

A lot of people seem to be mis-informed about LEDs, not suprising considering manufacturers don't usually provide lumen or efficiency data. They are practical for tons of applications including aquarium moonlights, but not for total tank lighting, at least until efficiencies approach that of fluorescents (2-5yrs).

 

[brandon4291]

Pulse, that is very interesting data. Do you think the lifespan of these bright 1/5w Luxeons will be extended past 1000hrs if you use supplemental fanning as opposed to just passive radiation through the use of a h.sink? That can make a huge difference in heat transfer rates especially when combined with a nice sink...would be neat to find out if it doubled or tripled the lifespan of the unit. Those luxeons are $$, but they are so bright and have the correct kelvin temps for both the daylight and blue bulbs so it would be neat to increase their efficiency.

Brandon M.