Conservation Thread

[Anonymous]

BTW- this thread has had over 6000 views. Industry people that are lurking, please let me know what I can do to get you to join the conversation by emailing [email protected] or sending me a pm. While there will be disagreements, I am working hard to ensure there are no attack posts.

Thanks!

 

[naesco]

A few years ago a call was made to have a leader emerge who would shepard industry reeform necessary for its survival.

It is obvious to me that Eric has taken that role and I wish him success and all the personal benefits that come his way as a result of his involvement.

Mark my words, for some time his company will be the only wholesaler where certified cyanide free fish and larval raised fish demanded by enlightened hobbyists will be available.

Those of you in industry who feel that when the time in right you can switch to CCF fish supplier will be switched off a supplier period. You need to get off your butts, support industry reeform and you too can benefit through your leadership.

The time to ensure access to CCF A-List fish in now.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the main question people have with MAC is 'what does the certification mean?' Certifications sometimes simply means that some one got paid to put a sticker up, and I think many would like MAC certification to mean more that that - and would like to see evidence that supports that idea.

 

[naesco]

I think the main question people have with MAC is 'what does the certification mean?' Certifications sometimes simply means that some one got paid to put a sticker up, and I think many would like MAC certification to mean more that that - and would like to see evidence that supports that idea.

If a MAC sticker ensures that you are first in line for A-List Certified Cyanide Free (CCF) fish demanded by the hobbyist what difference does it make?

 

[Anonymous]

I think the main question people have with MAC is 'what does the certification mean?' Certifications sometimes simply means that some one got paid to put a sticker up, and I think many would like MAC certification to mean more that that - and would like to see evidence that supports that idea.

If a MAC sticker ensures that you are first in line for A-List Certified Cyanide Free (CCF) fish demanded by the hobbyist what difference does it make?

My point was that I, and others, want confirmation that the sticker actually ensures that.

 

[Fish_dave]

Dr. Rubec,

I do hope that Ferdinand is successful in marketing his reared fish. It may work out in the Philippines for him. For sure the Philippines is worlds ahead of the Solomon Islands in infrastructure and educated people to help with his operation. We tried it in the Solomons for several years with the World Fish Center. It just did not work out using villagers in the Solomons, wild collected fish are just too much easier to obtain and reach the export phase of the market much cheaper in the Solomons. It will work for us in the Solomons to export the fish at a very tiny size for grow out elsewhere. The grow out in the Solomons is just too costly and at the end we still have freight space limitations to deal with. I think that Ferdinand will not have the freight space limitations that we deal with. He will have the price problem of selling raised fish for more money than wild caught. As you can see from your post there is a lot of work and infrastructure that goes into raising the fish to a marketable size. Wild collected fish can be obtained with less effort and cost. I hope that he can sell the fish at a price that will cover these extra costs. It is very difficult to get people to pay more for a fish. They give good lip service to doing it but when it is time to crack open the wallet and pay more it becomes a difficult sell.

Dave

 

[PeterIMA]

ReplyTo Fish Dave,

Dave, Thanks for your comments. You may be right, time will tell.

I agree that the problem for everyone trying to rear and sell marine aquarium fishes (MAF) is the reluctance of buyers to pay more for them than what they pay for cyanide-caught fishes. The same applies to net-caught. Buyers perceive they are more expensive than cyanide-caught fishes. They don't seem to care whether or not the net-caught fish survive better and/or live longer.

Ferdinand believes that he can produce both maricultured fish and net-caught fish that can compete with cyanide-caught fish. By reducing the mortality (through better shipping and handling) and supplying quality fish, we hope to increase the demand for net-caught and maricultured MAF.

I think we need to recognize that demand is growing while the supply of wild-caught fishes is declining as cyanide and other forms of destructive fishing destroy the coral reef and other coastal habitats needed by the MAF. Hence, we need to develop sustainable alternatives. So far, there is no evidence (that I have seen) that the MAC supply chain can provide Certified Net-caught or Certified Maricultured MAF at prices that are competetive with cyanide-caught marines.

Peter Rubec

 

[clarionreef]

Folks,
I subscribe to the NOAA CORAL REEF FORUM and wanted you to understand that the interest in groups, academics and agencies surveying, monitoring and restoring reefs is a global thing.
Relevant to our concern, is more information on how the reefs we get tropical fish from are faring.
Still more specific to that concern is how the certified sustainable reefs of Batasaan, Clarin and Camotes are doing.
Are they still certified sustainable?
Were they re-certified sustainable automatically?
Did Reefcheck deem them sustainable?
Did someone else?
Surely this matters as it tells us wether these reefs are certified sustainable on the basis of science or for some other purpose.
Its may serve us well to see that we are not nearly alone in our general interest and that people beyond the aquarium trade regard reef matters routinely..
Steve

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May 2006 Archives by date
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Starting: Mon May 1 12:19:06 EST 2006
Ending: Tue May 23 02:52:01 EST 2006
Messages: 74


[Coral-List] New UNCW Field research course, Spring of 2007 Szmant, Alina
[Coral-List] Spring 2007 Coral Reef Field Research Course Szmant, Alina
[Coral-List] Planting of propagated coral fragments andrew ross
[Coral-List] Marine GIS summer course lvagabond
[Coral-List] Planting of propagated coral fragments Michele & Karl
[Coral-List] Planting of propagated coral fragments John Cubit
[Coral-List] Planting of propagated coral fragments Kevin Kocot
[Coral-List] Position: CRS, marine and coastal resources management Gene Buck
[Coral-List] Planting of propagated coral fragments Chris Ryan
[Coral-List] Position: CRS, Ananlyst in Ocean and Marine Resources Management Gene Buck
[Coral-List] deadline for Carbonate Beaches and Coral Reefs meeting session: May 16 Curt Storlazzi
[Coral-List] Planting of propagated coral fragments Tom Moore
[Coral-List] REMINDER Please participate in coral and seagrass research and monitoring methods questionnaire Chris Roelfsema
[Coral-List] Job Opportunity: Administrative Coordinator Richard E. Dodge
[Coral-List] St Maarten seeking new Marine Park Manager Kalli de Meyer
[Coral-List] Conference: Industrial Cooling Seawater - thermal plumes and residual "chlorine" Iain Macdonald
[Coral-List] Buck Island Reef NM Biological Aid Ian Lundgren
[Coral-List] U.S. Coral Reef Task Force Announces New Protections for Threatened Coral Reefs Roger.B.Griffis
[Coral-List] Announcement: NOAA lists two species of Atlantic/Caribbean corals as threatened Roger.B.Griffis
[Coral-List] Good manager sought for good reefs GertJan Gast
[Coral-List] New Version of the Coral Reef Watch Google Earth product Mark Eakin
[Coral-List] position announcement Kimberly Woody
[Coral-List] 10th ICRS Proceedings will be sent next week hyamano at nies.go.jp
[Coral-List] weird bleaching in baja hreyes
[Coral-List] position announcement Robert Miller
[Coral-List] weird bleaching in baja Todd Barber
[Coral-List] position announcement willp2 at tds.net
[Coral-List] Job posting: MARINE ECOSYSTEMS RESEARCH SPECIALIST A & B Kevin Wong
[Coral-List] weird bleaching in baja shashank Keshavmurthy
[Coral-List] Final call for abstracts - ISRS Bremen Meeting 2006 ISRS 2006 Bremen
[Coral-List] 6th ISRS BREMEN - Key Taxa and processes ISRS_Monaco Team
[Coral-List] International Biogelgraphy Society 2007 Conference in the Canary Islands Katherine Smith
[Coral-List] Dr. Austin Lamberts Judith Lang/Lynton Land
[Coral-List] weird bleaching in baja Keven Reed
[Coral-List] Boulder Brain Coral Growth Christopher Maupin
[Coral-List] Dr. Austin Lamberts Dr. Stephen Jameson
[Coral-List] Bleaching Havens Mark Eakin
[Coral-List] weird bleaching in baja Mark Eakin
[Coral-List] SPREP Coral Reef and Invasive Species Positions Mark Eakin
[Coral-List] Dr. Austin Lamberts Steve Coles
[Coral-List] Job opportunity at the Mpingo Conservation Project Michelle Taylor
[Coral-List] Job opportunity with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, Coral Reef Conservation Program Bareford, Karen
[Coral-List] May 22: NOAA Releases 2006 Atlantic Hurricane Outlook Mark Eakin
[Coral-List] REU Opportunities in Marine/Ocean Sciences in Bermuda Samantha de Putron
[Coral-List] Acropora and polar bears Gene Shinn
[Coral-List] POSITION ANNOUNCEMENT: Fishing, Diving & Other Uses Project Coordinator- Coral Reef Conservation Program Collier, Chantal
[Coral-List] Hexacorallians of the World fautin
[Coral-List] Responding to digested messages Jim Hendee
[Coral-List] weird bleaching in Baja Mark Warner
[Coral-List] Florida Bay sands Martin Moe
[Coral-List] Apologies Jim Hendee
[Coral-List] weird bleaching in Baja shashank Keshavmurthy
[Coral-List] Sewage Outfall News Video Etichscuba at aol.com
[Coral-List] Lower Keys ooids Gene Shinn
[Coral-List] Lower Keys ooids Martin Moe
[Coral-List] Regarding Mike Risk's comment Jim Hendee
[Coral-List] USCRTF Awards Jim Hendee
[Coral-List] obituary for John H. Perry, Jr. Mike Jankulak
[Coral-List] Regarding Mike Risk's comment Gene Shinn
[Coral-List] Polar Bear Listing HAS NOT Been Rejected Brent Plater
[Coral-List] PhD Opportunity for Australian or NZ Citizens John Pandolfi
[Coral-List] [Fwd: The Coral Reef Multimedia Project] Jim Hendee
[Coral-List] unidentified encruster jennie mallela
[Coral-List] Salinity loggers Diego Lirman
[Coral-List] Rebuttals Jim Hendee
[Coral-List] Coral-List Purpose Jim Hendee
[Coral-List] Ara Macao (Scarlet Macaw) Resort, Placencia, Belize Mary Toy
[Coral-List] Coral-List Purpose Precht, Bill
[Coral-List] NOAA issues 2006 Hurricane Outlook and CRW's thoughts on 2006 Caribbean bleaching season Mark Eakin
[Coral-List] NOAA Pacific Hurricane Outlook Mark Eakin
[Coral-List] Coral Reef Restoration Handbook Precht, Bill
[Coral-List] Monitoring Tools Database Melissa Davies Bos
[Coral-List] SST - Sea Surface Temperature Osmar Luiz Júnior
[Coral-List] artificial reef and aquaculture Adeline POUGET
Last message date: Tue May 23 02:52:01 EST 2006
Archived on: Tue May 23 07:12:03 EST 2006

 

[naesco]

Nice post Steve.
It is interesting that not only the Government agency, NOAA, but so many concerned experts have an interest in what we are promoting.

Would you kindly provide me with the web address of the forum as I would like to take a peek at their discussions and perhaps add my own perspective from time to time.

 

[Caterham]

Naesco,

How are you involved in the trade of marine ornamentals? How many animals do you tank on a weekly basis? What is the average DOA rate that you personally experience from your imports?

Many thanks in advance for your reply.

 

[PeterIMA]

Caterham,

How are you involved in the trade of marine ornamentals? How many animals do you tank on a weekly basis? What is the average DOA rate that you personally experience from your imports?

Peter Rubec

 

[naesco]

Naesco,

How are you involved in the trade of marine ornamentals? How many animals do you tank on a weekly basis? What is the average DOA rate that you personally experience from your imports?

Many thanks in advance for your reply.

You posted this same question that I answered on four different occasions.
I checked the fourty five posts you have made. Interesting!
1. Almost all your posts "attacked" a previous post" I had made.
2. You added nothing to the ideas exchanged on the thread.

I am quite flattered that I have my very own stalker.
The new decorum in this forum prohibits me from posting exactly what I think of your behaviour.

 

[Reef Check HQ]

Hi guys,

Sorry for the absence. I am very impressed with the mainly positive and informative nature of the posts over the past two weeks.

I would like to share that over the past few weeks I have visited several MPAs that are not so widely known but are quite successful. Reef Check began monitoring the global status of reefs in 1997 and it wasn't until 2001 that we first began to see a statistically significant difference in numbers of Reef Check indicators on reefs inside and outside MPAs. This was because most MPAs were not working well, and were not well managed. This is still true but we are gaining ground and there are some dramatic results that you can visit and see for yourself.

The first MPA I will highlight is Cabo Pulmo in Baja -- declared some ten years ago and off the beaten track until recently, this park has some of the highest standing stocks of mega reef fish in the region. It also has a fascinating and unusual feature of schools of hundreds of pufferfish -- often featured in diving magazines. No one seems to know why. Whale and bull sharks, huge schools of eagle rays make this a great example of a successful large MPA just down the coast. Too bad we don't have more like that in El Norte.

The second MPA is Gilutongan Island just offshore off of Mactan in Cebu. Gilutongan is now an amazing site -- showing that a place that used to be dynamite and CN central can come back in as little as 2 years. Fish size and diversity are off the scale now and coral cover is back to luxuriant and the locals are totally supportive.

The third MPA is Menjangan Island in North Bali an MPA for about 8 years depending on when you judge real management began. Although there is obviously still a lot poaching going on there -- the reef is intact and fish populations are diverse and abundant. Great diving!

So -- point is -- three MPAs -- now a few years old each. Not perfect management but all three 3rd world countries and all three success stories.

Using MAC certificaiton as an incentive, we are now starting the process of implementing active management at previous "paper parks" and starting new MPAs in areas where none were before. So far, this process is working fairly well although some sites (such as Batasan) were probably not that great to begin with and may take longer to recover......

But the point is that there are some positive and bright spots out there on the dark horizon -- all in developing countries.

As has been noted, we also are working with Ecocean, to localize the post-larval capture techniques they have been using for years (commercially) in French Polynesia and elsewhere and use them for both commercial and rehab applications. This gives us another tool to kick-start rehab on severely degraded reefs (i.e. most).

Greg

 

[naesco]

REEFCHECK it would be nice for MAC to coral the supply of larval raised fish and make it part of their cyanide free fish (CCF) package.

As started by previous posters there is little interest in industry itself to support larval raised when they can troll the reefs for cheap cyanide caught fish.

 

[reefcheck-rsphil]

Hello,

Our preliminary work with ECOCEAN on post-larvae capture, rearing and restocking has shed light on some parameters that improved survivorship of restocked reef fishes. We have used different ages of a batch of reef fishes collected late last year and tested which age would fare best, inside and outside marine protected areas. Physical factors also came into play and interaction with other species played a major role in the survivorship of certain species only.

As mentioned by Greg, this exciting research not only provides an alternative source of marine ornamentals but also is a "tool to kick-start rehab on severely degraded reefs". Our current challenge is tagging the small fish that will be released into the reef for subsequent visual surveys. Northwest Marine Technology, Inc. has a micro-tag called visible implant fluorescent elastomer but is quite costly. Does anyone know of a similarly effective yet cheaper tag for small fishes :?: Would appreciate inputs.

Rex
Reef Check Scientist

 

[PeterIMA]

Rex, I don't think there is any reliable tagging method for very small fishes. Florida Fish & Wildlife (FWC) does DNA sequencing (both mitrochondrial and nuclear) sequencing on red drum to distinguish hatchery reared juveniles from wild juveniles that are caught in Tampa Bay, Florida by the FWC Fisheries Independent Monitoring (FIM) program. The hatchery reared fish released into Tampa Bay as part of the FWC Stock Enhancement Program are being identified to help evaluate their survival rates in the wild. Hence, there is a means of determining whether or not stock enhancement is working or not. So far, not many stocked fingerling red drum have been recaptured. Survival rates are higher on larger fish (about 10 to 12 inches). It looks like stocking half inch fingerlings just provides food to predatory species.

 

[dizzy]

Hence, there is a means of determining whether or not stock enhancement is working or not. So far, not many stocked fingerling red drum have been recaptured. Survival rates are higher on larger fish (about 10 to 12 inches). It looks like stocking half inch fingerlings just provides food to predatory species.

Peter,
It's not just the size of the fish that's the problem. Captive reared fish have no survival skills. They just wait for the food to be dumped in on them. How can anyone really expect these "spoiled" fishes to be able to compete with their street smart counterparts? You have also circumvented the survival of the fittest conditions that make wild fish hardy. It's a bit like sending a group of couch potatoes into battle. :roll:
Mitch

 

[clarionreef]

The real goal is not to multiply fishes...
but to multiply, justify and validate esoteric research into the hot new funding area.
Meanwhile, back at Batasan, Clarin and Camotes.....the lives of the fisherman ...and the reefs remain the same
Steve

 

[PeterIMA]

Mitch, I think your couch potatoe analogy is scientifically defensible. A study published in Environmental Biology of Fishes found that hatchery reared red drum did not exhibit habitat preference or avoidance behaviors that would allow them to escape predation. Normally, early-juvenile red drum hide from predators in seagrass beds situated in estuaries. Hatchery reared red drum exhibited no preference for seagrass in experimental enclosures with different habitats present for the fish to choose from. Hence, the habitat preference bahaviors needed to excape predation were absent in the hatchery reared fish.

I have not seen any published behavioral studies done on larval or post-larval fishes (may be some out there) that could help us determine whether stock enhancement of larval fish (release of hatchery-reared fish) is worthwhile or not.

Rex, Please cite the scientific studies that support your program involving release of larval fishes. In other words, are there scientific studies that support your approach?

Peter Rubec

Peter

 

[Reef Check HQ]

Folks,

The post-larvae can be grown out under various conditions and they will retain their skills in negotiating with the world.

Obviously, there are two potential streams for the juvenile fish.
1) Allow the local fishermen to sell them directly as an additional income source, and/or
2) Use them for restocking.

We would like to do both.

The first was pioneered by Ecocean in other locations around the world, and they have had financially viable results.

Regarding the second: As far as I know, no one has tried this before with selected reef fish anywhere, and there are no published studies. We have just carried out the first year's study and are writing up the results now for publication.

Rex has completed an initial experiment and the results are encouraging that a significant percentage of juveniles are retained on the reef after several weeks. It is easier to track reef fish than milkfish or spotted drum without tags because they settle on a specific patch of coral.

We would like to now expand these experiments to a larger scale and see if we can accomplish both goals. Given that a major problem on reefs is overfishing and an imbalance in the fish populations, it seems like a good investment, especially since some food fish can be raised.

As one poster pointed out, this not only can increase income for the fishermen but is a source of guaranteed CN-free fish.

Greg