Interesting political comments.
No one adressed the issue of cyanide and what they can do.
I have to correct numerous untruths, though.
1. Canada is and has been for years, the best performing country in the G-7.
2. The US joined the 2nd world war after they were themselves attacked.
To compare WW2 to Viet Nam or Iraq is not accurate at all although there are a few who really believe it.
3. Over 60% of Americans no longer support the war in Iraq.
I have the following comments.
Daniel, bring your wife home now to be with her children. Very soon the Americans as they did in Viet Nam will retreat. There is no point of putting her at an risk. There is no purpose.
Jenn, your encouraging comment is misplaced patriotism. My country right or wrong is dated thinking. You have a duty to let those in government know that the war in Iraq is wrong and that the troops should return to their families.
Lastly, all the Kuwiati's that I have met are against US further involvement. The Kuwaiti government warned the US not to stay in Iraq. Like Canadians, they are friends of the US.
No one adressed the issue of cyanide and what they can do.
I have to correct numerous untruths, though.
1. Canada is and has been for years, the best performing country in the G-7.
2. The US joined the 2nd world war after they were themselves attacked.
To compare WW2 to Viet Nam or Iraq is not accurate at all although there are a few who really believe it.
3. Over 60% of Americans no longer support the war in Iraq.
I have the following comments.
Daniel, bring your wife home now to be with her children. Very soon the Americans as they did in Viet Nam will retreat. There is no point of putting her at an risk. There is no purpose.
Jenn, your encouraging comment is misplaced patriotism. My country right or wrong is dated thinking. You have a duty to let those in government know that the war in Iraq is wrong and that the troops should return to their families.
Lastly, all the Kuwiati's that I have met are against US further involvement. The Kuwaiti government warned the US not to stay in Iraq. Like Canadians, they are friends of the US.
naesco,
I asked you what you have done in Canada to stop the importation of drugged fish into your country? I am just trying to ag you on or get another comment out of you like many here. I am serious what have you done in your country to make an improvement? Do you really believe that having the government set rules about the way something should be import is the answer?
Also did you submit an Abstract to Marine Ornamentals 06? This is the place for you to voice your thoughts.
I asked you what you have done in Canada to stop the importation of drugged fish into your country? I am just trying to ag you on or get another comment out of you like many here. I am serious what have you done in your country to make an improvement? Do you really believe that having the government set rules about the way something should be import is the answer?
Also did you submit an Abstract to Marine Ornamentals 06? This is the place for you to voice your thoughts.
Naesco you fool. Dont believe everything you hear on your socialistic media or CNN which is about the same thing.
The support for the war, even though diminished, its still great. And the suppor has been dimished becuase of the half truths told on the media.
The USA will never retreat from Iraq. Certainly not while Bush is in power and even if some democrat gets elected in '08 (God forbid), we still will not retreat.
We will see this through and we will win. Some american blood will be spilled, but thats the price we have to pay to secure your sorry little a$$ up there in Canada. But thats ok, you dont have to be grateful. We don't even want your gratitude. We are doing this because its the right thing to do.
As for cyanide... hmm... there is this little place near my house that sell some really good fish freshly caught from the Phillipines and what not.
Great looking fish too. Sometimes they die for no apparent reason. I guess its the cyanide... but heck, they were cheap... so what do i care. I'll just go buy some more.
The support for the war, even though diminished, its still great. And the suppor has been dimished becuase of the half truths told on the media.
The USA will never retreat from Iraq. Certainly not while Bush is in power and even if some democrat gets elected in '08 (God forbid), we still will not retreat.
We will see this through and we will win. Some american blood will be spilled, but thats the price we have to pay to secure your sorry little a$$ up there in Canada. But thats ok, you dont have to be grateful. We don't even want your gratitude. We are doing this because its the right thing to do.
As for cyanide... hmm... there is this little place near my house that sell some really good fish freshly caught from the Phillipines and what not.
Great looking fish too. Sometimes they die for no apparent reason. I guess its the cyanide... but heck, they were cheap... so what do i care. I'll just go buy some more.
spawner":2qht1yu6 said:
If you check this thread you will see that I explained that I thought it would be best to pursue this issue in the US as they are by far the major importer of cyanide caught fish. Like I said, had I thought for one moment that Mr. Bush would be re-elected I would have abandoned the US side and tried to make the changes in Canada first.
I will seriously consider doing an abstract on the necessity for industry to change it ways in time for the next conference.
There is zero chance that industry will change unless it is forced to change. Change will only happen when the government changes and people are elected that will enforce the existing laws and make new ones that stop the cyanide carnage to the reefs. To achieve this there must be an immediate prohibition on the import of fish from countries like the Philippines and Indonesia where the use of cyanide is rampant. In addition, those stateside that have violated the Lacey Act must be prosecuted, fined and imprisoned. When the first prosecution is laid, and a conviction is made, the rest of industry will stop buying fish where they know that the fish has been caught by cyanide.
Why change man... why change...
Why do you want the fish to be more expensive... Maybe you are rich fool with lots of money in your wallet.... What about the rest of us that actually work for a living? We want cheap fish...
Fish are not going anywhere... They know how to procreate... they won't run out... c'mon... leave things as they are, ok?
Why do you want the fish to be more expensive... Maybe you are rich fool with lots of money in your wallet.... What about the rest of us that actually work for a living? We want cheap fish...
Fish are not going anywhere... They know how to procreate... they won't run out... c'mon... leave things as they are, ok?
clarionreef
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- San Francisco
Wayne writes;
"If you check this thread you will see that I explained that I thought it would be best to pursue this issue in the US as they are by far the major importer of cyanide caught fish".
Wayne, ..why not start in a smaller market place and show the way?
.
Canada for example.
Steve
"If you check this thread you will see that I explained that I thought it would be best to pursue this issue in the US as they are by far the major importer of cyanide caught fish".
Wayne, ..why not start in a smaller market place and show the way?
.
Canada for example.
Steve
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
"Start with the wisdom that if you fix your self up in a single village and suceed....the rest will follow."
Gandhi
PS. Actually, Canada is the most logical place to show the Yanks how its done.
[ Not to mention all the international public aquariums that never had a problem with exhibiting cyanide fishes to accent their "conservation themes". In fact, the Shedd in Chicago spent 6 million on their Philippine reef exhibits to showcase cyanide fishes. ]
Gandhi
PS. Actually, Canada is the most logical place to show the Yanks how its done.
[ Not to mention all the international public aquariums that never had a problem with exhibiting cyanide fishes to accent their "conservation themes". In fact, the Shedd in Chicago spent 6 million on their Philippine reef exhibits to showcase cyanide fishes. ]
I still blame the Clintons for getting us into this war in the first place!
Oh, what's that? You all forgot it was under Clinton that the doctrine of regime change first came around? That even Hilary ran around supporting invading Iraq?
That most of "false intelligence" was gathered under Clinton and that he ran around used the same reports as a call to war?
What? What's that? a little revisionist history now? Yeah? Yeah? Is that it? Forgetting what actually happened? Uh, are we forgetting that the countries most opposed to the war were the ones most abusing the oil for food program? Yeah?
Oh, what's that? You all forgot it was under Clinton that the doctrine of regime change first came around? That even Hilary ran around supporting invading Iraq?
That most of "false intelligence" was gathered under Clinton and that he ran around used the same reports as a call to war?
What? What's that? a little revisionist history now? Yeah? Yeah? Is that it? Forgetting what actually happened? Uh, are we forgetting that the countries most opposed to the war were the ones most abusing the oil for food program? Yeah?
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Steven,
You encourage him..w/ a sincere question.
" Look under WTO rules to see if his proposals are possible???"
There are no proposals...only soundbites.
If cyanide fish pass muster with ;
1. local law in Indo and the Philippines,
2. Get exported by federal authorites with legal documents....
3. get imported into the US w/ legal documents....and rubberstamped by Fish and Wildlife every day....
4. Flow thru the"certified" facilities with zero impediment...
5. get imported into Canada every day... passing Canadian wildlife and customs authorities....
6. and get planned for and purchased by every public aquarium in the US, Europe and Canada.....every week.....
...how does it fall soley upon industry dealers now to fix the inequity that none of the institutions mentioned seem to have a problem with?
They validate the status quo every day for a living.
Steve
PS. In the spirit of eating only sustainable fish as practiced in a few dozen public aquarium restaurants....why don't you simply target them to clean up their act before tilting at the biggest and most difficult consumer marketplace on the planet...This starting at the top is a poor strategy to say the least.
Start w/ the Vancouver Aquarium in your backyard. They put out more pretty words about conservation then any aquarium out there....see if you can get em to match it with deed and behavior.
You encourage him..w/ a sincere question.
" Look under WTO rules to see if his proposals are possible???"
There are no proposals...only soundbites.
If cyanide fish pass muster with ;
1. local law in Indo and the Philippines,
2. Get exported by federal authorites with legal documents....
3. get imported into the US w/ legal documents....and rubberstamped by Fish and Wildlife every day....
4. Flow thru the"certified" facilities with zero impediment...
5. get imported into Canada every day... passing Canadian wildlife and customs authorities....
6. and get planned for and purchased by every public aquarium in the US, Europe and Canada.....every week.....
...how does it fall soley upon industry dealers now to fix the inequity that none of the institutions mentioned seem to have a problem with?
They validate the status quo every day for a living.
Steve
PS. In the spirit of eating only sustainable fish as practiced in a few dozen public aquarium restaurants....why don't you simply target them to clean up their act before tilting at the biggest and most difficult consumer marketplace on the planet...This starting at the top is a poor strategy to say the least.
Start w/ the Vancouver Aquarium in your backyard. They put out more pretty words about conservation then any aquarium out there....see if you can get em to match it with deed and behavior.
mkirda":3nq15e0h said:
Why not Mike?
The purpose of the thread was to ask what was happening in REEFORM these days.
The answer was that the political situation at this time did not allow for advancing REEFORMS agenda. ie it would be a waste of time.
Yes there were some purely political comments but, I understand the
sensitivities. Americans agonize over pulling out of a war they know they
are losing, versus having to apear to support the young people who are there.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Wayne writes;
'The answer was that the political situation at this time did not allow for advancing REEFORMS agenda. ie it would be a waste of time."
Wayne, the Iraq wars got nothing to do with it.
The reform of the trade is cheap and easy and well with in our means to effect. The poor quality of representation in the issue however, has kept progress at a minimum.
Never send a child to do a mans work...[with a mans budget]....but thats what happened.
The kid will come back empty handed and with no money left....just some chocolate on the face.
Steve
Thinking that Federals somehow have anything to offer is a silly and naive cop-out.
'The answer was that the political situation at this time did not allow for advancing REEFORMS agenda. ie it would be a waste of time."
Wayne, the Iraq wars got nothing to do with it.
The reform of the trade is cheap and easy and well with in our means to effect. The poor quality of representation in the issue however, has kept progress at a minimum.
Never send a child to do a mans work...[with a mans budget]....but thats what happened.
The kid will come back empty handed and with no money left....just some chocolate on the face.
Steve
Thinking that Federals somehow have anything to offer is a silly and naive cop-out.
The forum just seemed so dead, I had to include you Neasco to get some of the sumpers in here Sponsor Reefs
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