MAC Exporter has netting problems?

[Anonymous]

MAC CERTIFIED Exporter has collection station close due to lack of proper netting

Here’s something you won’t see in MAC’s newsletter, but you should.

PTFEA’s own very own secretary, Guia D.(MAC Certified), had one of her collections stations shut down on her as they had no more netting to collect with. She’s desperate to secure a source of netting. This truly puzzles me, as Lolita Ty, MAC’s BOD Vice Chair, supposedly has tons that she distributes herself. John Brandt, MAC BOD, in his trip there two years ago, took pictures of Lolita Ty holding up the netting (never mind it was not kosher netting, but, white large nylon) that she distributes to her collectors. The PTFEA, by their own admission on their website, has solved the cyanide problem years ago. If they don’t use cyanide, and only use nets, how can a station be allowed to fold due to lack of netting? I could understand letting a unwanted station lay waste, but, she needs this station. Shouldn’t the PTFEA have a supply of the very tool that they need to do business, IF THEY AREN’T USING CYANIDE?

In their defense, there is a large supply of netting, but, Ferdie Cruz will not release any to anyone not in inner circle. Netting that some of you donated money to purchase. This HUGE amount of netting is sitting in a warehouse in Manila collecting dust. Some has been released, but like I said, only to Ferdie’s inner business circle. This netting is not helping solve anything.

 

[PeterIMA]

Gresham,

I must object to your unfounded attack on Ferdinand Cruz. The netting in question (purchased by Mary Middlebrook with funding obtained from marine hobbyists) is knotless square mesh nylon intended for hand nets not the type of netting needed to make barrier nets (knotted 1/4" netting that comes from Taiwan). You know this, so I must question your motives with this attack. If HD Marineworld needs barrier netting they should be able to obtain it either from Lolita Ty head of the Philippine Tropical Fish Exporters Association (PFTEA) of which HD Marineworld is a member export company or from the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC). The last I heard the MAC has over $6 million US dollars to conduct net-training through the Marine Aquarium Marketing Transformation Initiative (MAMTI).

The East Asian Seas Initiative (EASI) will be conducting net-trainings in the near future. At that time, the hand netting will be distributed to aquarium fish collectors.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

:roll: Arg, Peter, is was all about the MAC and PTFEA thing :wink: But it isn't about barrier netting either

 

[clarionreef]

Peter,
I for one am tired of supplying the actual netting to other dealers who want it because they can't get it from MAC... and the million dollar eco-malpractice that has been running in the Philippines for 20 years now.
When certified exporters ask me for the netting its because they all know that MAC does not ever help out with it. There is no lower opinion of the whole charade then from people who have been certified yet cast adrift with no fish, no netting and no market support...
The phoney white netting in the exporter association Presidents office is just to show white people that there is in fact 'netting' in the Philippines.
The bogus netting has fooled one visitor after another and kept them in stitches after they close the door behind him.
Minimizing the critical material in the craft of fish collecting by bureaucrats, office people and non aquarium people has to this day left poor divers all over the country without nets to work with.

IS THIS THE FOUNDATION FOR A CERTIFICATION MOVEMENT?

If anyone but Packard, Macarthur, US AID , TNC, and other big tax write off groups paid for this fandango there would perhaps be an alarm bells going off after 5 years of premeditated failures in the villages.
If working class business people paid for it, they would expect to see good netcaught fish flowing in 2-3 weeks!
The evolution of environmental NGOs has regressed so far beyond competence and credulity that only uninvolved outsiders [ and funders] can still embrace them. These fools actually think that paper writing about missions, goals, timelines and budgets translate into reality without talent and and knowhow.
You can write about baseball but it don't mean you can play.

The same goes for this stuff. Writing down intentions about perfect and perfectly sustainable fisheries based on some peoples actual work....doesn't mean that just anyone can do it.
Steve

PS No fish, no nets, no credibility...Whats that got to do with anything REMOTELY IN THE INTEREST OF A SUSTAINABLE REEF TRADE?
Funders of this endless chain of failure are as guilty as the ones squandering the capital...in the name of 'industry reform'.[/b]

 

[JeremyR]

Gotta love it when net bought thru hobbyist goodwill sits in a warehouse. I bet it's not a free warehouse either.

 

[JeremyR]

Exporter: "Yes, we ship net caught fish. We use a net to catch them from the holding tank."

 

[Anonymous]

Sooo smooth...

Here's a pic John Brandt of MAC BOD posted a year or two back. It's a picture of Lolita Ty, PTFEA President and MAC BOD, holding up white nylon nettting for John Brandt to photo. Why would she show this junk, if they have good stuff? Why don't they pony up a few bucks and supply their divers the good stuff? Why is the PTFEA's secratery asking abroad for netting, shouldn't they have their own? How many years have the members of the PTFEA been in business? Just how do they collect if, if they don't have nets, or not enough? What about MAC? Can't they walk down the street in HI, and pick up some netting to send to the needy collectors? They have the address for another supplier as well, the place that Steve told Mike Kirda about, so mary could get it for the net fund (so it could sit in RVS's warehouse and collect dust and rat droppings.) Nah, MAC's too busy setting up bamboo and styrofoam holding centers for the villagers, and taking credit for it

 

[Anonymous]

Love this part, 1 photo wasn't enough

That guys sure is smirking He's thinking "what the heck is this for boss?"

 

[DBM]

Gresham,

Who closed her collecting station? I thought she had a total of 6 or 7 people working for her. How many stations has she got? Last time I spoke with her she didn't have alot of money to work with.

If you heard all this stuff from Guia take it with a grain of salt, she's melodramatic to say the least.

If there isn't the proper barrier netting available in the Philippines, MAC needs to get off their asses and get it. I can't figure out for the life of me why they don't make it a priority to generate a genuine supply of net-caught fish.

 

[Anonymous]

But it isn't about barrier netting

 

[clarionreef]

The photos Gresham just posted are PROOF OF FRAUD and intent to defraud.
This worthless white, opague netting is good for dipping live bait fish out of a tank....it is never ever used for running tangs against or freehand netting anything.
Lolita Ty knew this but it was the cheapest, nearest netting she could have her driver find before foreign guests arrived.
The planned, premeditated defrauding of naive, nubile MAC-tites and other office bound wannbie field people shows a conniving, duplicitous, insincere spirit...coming from MAC BOD member and president of the Exporters assoc.
The cover-up of this despite being advised of it immediately by us ensued in knee-jerk fashion.
As president of AMDA at the time, I was trying to work out a truce between the MAC and us....and like so many other fraudulent things that they have promulgated...refrained from rubbing their nose in it.
Years go by, coral reefs die and the cyanide trade is still very strong.
Strong for the lack of alternatives....netting....training....and especially integrity and good-will among the million dollar "reform groups" charged with the task of getting about the business of reform.

N0 Fish? results? conversions? productivity?
There is no way to piss away that much money without trying really hard and I think that the continual engineering of pitiful results....no conversions...no fish and no netting belie a group with ulterior motives at worst and of gross negligence and incompetence at best.
Then add this to the quarterly reports where successes are claimed
sans progress underwater and what are you left to believe?

MAC is extremely lucky that the reef trade has diverted so much attention and energy to solve the fish problem.
They can only survive year after year of predictable eco-malpractice because the trades new reef culture focuses on coral...live rock and reef janitors so much.
The focus on fish and the things that kill them has waned considerably in the past decade and has enabled the failure to pass less noticed and w/ less alarm..
The irony is that for a trade that claims to love coral and reefs so much....especially 2-3 inch coral....it has let the 50 year old mother colonies remain victims to fish collecting poisons insuring that the reef will suffer...and decline.

Thanks for dusting off the photos Gresham....
They do indeed prove the case of continuing, fraud in our house.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Some of the fraud that was tried on a village in Bali. This green nylon was given by WWF, IIRC. Notice he's looking away, ashamed he couldn't make use of the gift. He tried, it just scared fish away.

 

[Anonymous]

He sure didn't waste any time to produce this barrier net Steve brought for him, nor the hand net. He had the skills, and the committment to stay away from cyanide for good, now he has the tools.

His first attempt at a scoop hand net.

 

[mkirda]

So... What sort of netting is Guia looking for then?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Mike,
She needs all of it....regularly.
2 lb barrier net, 1/6th inch hand net and the 1/4 inch handnetting material.
They need replenishing yearly. Since there is no 2 lb barrier net in Manila or the handnetting, it all has to go in from afar.
As the secretary and right hand man of the president of the exporters association...and first to be certified exporter, of course she has no way to get netting.
Since the PTFEA and the MAC are city based political groups....there is no netting allowance or availbility for the fisherman.
But....it has been pointed out here that the 'thing with the nets' is overblown....just a small bit of the issue....and worthless anyway unless the fish come w/ a certification [ by the group that cannot train fisherman ]...and a track record to prove it!
It gives no pleasure being right about this stuff....YEAR AFTER YEAR.
I will send it to her...but am reluctant to do MACs work for them for free...especially after they were shown the way and got cashed up to take over this part.
What on earth do they spend the money on...in this collection reform gravy train if not the field?

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Why can't they buy their own netting, or pry some out of Ferdie's private stockpile?

 

[clarionreef]

Lee,
You miss the entire point.
She is the only exporter ACTUALLY trying to get the right nets to work with.
With everyone else....any net will do regardless of the divers disposition to use it...or its deliterious effect on the fish.
White net, mosquito net, green net, cheese slicer net, gill net have all satisfied so called "reformers'...real dealers, however must have the real thing.
Honest dealers cannot dump junk nets on poor fisherman and expect good results.
Guia is on the inside with MAC and the best confidant of their country co-ordinator. ...now running the latest episode in Mindinao w/ the CIA and the rebel returness.
She is the requisite stop on every Manila dog and pony 'reform tour' and she handles converted divers going back as far as 15 years....YET STILL she cannot get netting from anyone else?
OBVIOUSLY, if anything MAC has ever told you all were true, we could not have this conversation as the most elementry, primary and basic tool of reform would already be in the hands of the divers. Period.
Clearly, it is not.
Now why is that?
steve
PS. And if Guia can't get it, do you really think that Lolita the president has it...or MAC folks in "the field". What are they alledgedly training anyone with by the way?
PS.# 2.The netting sent to Ferdie was without stipulation or guidelines from the American donors. You'll have to ask them whats up with it.

 

[mkirda]

The netting sent to Ferdie was without stipulation or guidelines from the American donors. You'll have to ask them whats up with it.

Steve,

If it is the hand netting that is needed, why not just send a private e-mail to Ferdinand and ask him to bring some over to Guia?

Just seems like it is the most direct way to solve 'the problem'...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[JeremyR]

How do we know ferdinand hasn't been asked already? Just playing devil's advocate... so much he said/she said in these arguements it's near impossible for us stateside people to know who's lying and who's not. Like everything, there are so many agendas and half truths...

 

[mkirda]

How do we know ferdinand hasn't been asked already? Just playing devil's advocate... so much he said/she said in these arguements it's near impossible for us stateside people to know who's lying and who's not. Like everything, there are so many agendas and half truths...

I don't know that he has or hasn't been asked.
This is why I asked Steve (and/or Gresham) publicly.

I know from seeing it and being sent a sample that there is barrier netting available in the Philippines. I also know that there is a major difference in quality between netting available in Manila and in other countries. The barrier netting Steve advocates is of the much higher quality. But it is not available in Manila because it is relatively expensive.

I also know that the fishermen in Palauig will tie there own netting material. They cannot buy what they want, so they make it by hand.

I also know that fishermen in other areas make do with the netting that is available. They typically will add a bottom skirt of the very inexpensive and very readily available nylon mesh. So the bottom 6-8" is mesh, while the top two feet or so is the inexpensive net. This somewhat solves the issue of the substandard netting material as the nylon is stronger and very easy to replace.

Again, not to go against Steve, but there are differences of opinion out there in the field. I know that everyone would LOVE to have the higher grade netting material. However, because of the cost of importation, plus paying Western prices, the fishermen continue to work with what is readily available, adapting and improving it. Filipino ingenuity is a source of national pride.

Regards.
Mike Kirda