Should non-native corals be farmed in open sys? Why or not?

[Bill2]

Since my post was sidetracked withing 5 replies I decied to run a poll.

We are of course talking about farming in tropical climates. Temperate locations need not apply.

 

[Bill2]

Just to clarify since my for some reason the topic line and the question line have a limit on characters.

Should someone take corals from point A and farm them in point B commercially. I'm not talking about backyard farms but large commercial flow through or open water farms.

 

[DustinDorton]

I do not think that non-native species should be grown without proper waste water management. That elimnates flow through and in situ farms. Recirculating systems are the only way to go.

Dustin

 

[MaryHM]

This seems like kind of a weird question. I mean, there are absolutely NO benefits to aquaculturing non-native corals in an open system whereas there are obvious, serious negative aspects of doing this.

 

[Bill2]

One symbol $$$$$$$$$

 

[horge]

You're kidding, right?
No?

Then... NO

Any such activity should be heavily prosecuted and penalized for the risk it places the local environment in (rather than for stealing away some poor country-of-origin's pseudo-proprietary natural resource).

Since penalties have a real $$$$$$ cost, that should negate the $$$$$$ incentive you're citing.

 

[Anonymous]

Obvious NOPE with no explanation needed. It's like asking if its ok for a 2 year oold to play with a loaded fire arm.

 

[Anonymous]

<--- Even this dumb hobbyist knows better... :wink:

 

[DustinDorton]

Not to speak for Bill, but this is the question he was asking in the "should species be propageted in different oceans." thread. Someone wanted to take Florida Ricordea and Zoanthids to Indonesia to grow on a farm there.

 

[clarionreef]

Whats wrong with it?
The good fishery biologists who took the Nile perch to Lake Victoria didn't see anything wrong with it either!
We permit invasives all too often thru stupidity. The question however was wether or not to smuggle them in on purpose and illegally place them on the doorstep of a foreign environment.
As Horge asked....'You're kidding right?"
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Ahh, ok Dustin, thanks. BTW, thats the same question we're all talking about. PLUS why the hell would anyone bring crap florida zo's to Indo? Kinda like asking if people is southern California should be allowed to grow caulerpa in an open system. Also kinda like asking if its cool to bring Atlantic Salmon into the Pacific Salmon waters (and since escaped and is running havoc with the native gene pool). So far, every one whom has responded, has responded NO. Why? BECAUSE IT'S JUST MAD TO DO THAT. you can point to so many incidents of this nature and their failure, its not even funny (or even a valid question as most countries have laws against this, and yes, Indo has those laws too. So since we're talking about a illegal activity, I want to poll everyone if its ok to release Indo croc's into Floridas waters? Is it ok to release SARS into the US? Same line of logic)

 

[clarionreef]

PSSSSTT !
The intent to smuggle banned species is usually done in silence, furtively .
If you're gonna do it...er, you're supposed to do it in secret and not tell anyone!
sshhh, Steve

 

[Anonymous]

no

no explanation's necessary :wink:

 

[Bill2]

Ahh, ok Dustin, thanks. BTW, thats the same question we're all talking about. PLUS why the hell would anyone bring crap florida zo's to Indo? )

But he wasn't bringing zo's from Florida. He was soliciting hobbyists for frags of their best zo's to take to indo to propagate.

 

[Anonymous]

OK, still wrong, illegal and dangerous. I hope you post this persons name (email address fine) as to sink their ship prior to them indroducing these frags into non native waters. I will do alll that is in my power to see out trade doesn't do such a stupid thing. So Bill, you gonna hide this guy or let us know who he is, so we may talk some sense into him? A simple bribe will most likely put this guy into action. This needs to end in the concept stage!!!

 

[jamesw]

Uhm, anyone ever see Eric Borneman's slideshow about his trip to the coral farm in Dominica (names witheld). They had a BUNCH of indo corals (in south carib) and a semi closed system.

Cheesr
James

 

[Anonymous]

And did this semi-closed system address outlow of organisms, ie. sterilazation? Still wrong, and now (name witheld) is helping to hide the operation.

 

[Anonymous]

I would definitely agree with the majority here.

It is a bad idea.

The precautionary principle suggests that in light of many unintended introductions of non-native animals and the subsequent fallout from such events, it is likely a bad idea.

Read Jurassic Park for a good analogy of what can happen when trying to 'manage" nature.

 

[Eric Borneman]

Hi all: Gresham asked me for input here.

Yes, there was a coral farm in Dominica that ha planned to grow Indonesian corals to supplement their Caribbean farming operation. I have an article at reefkeeping.com in the 2002 index on the subject.

We were sent there to take a look at the situation and evaluate potential ecological impacts of those corals and determine sustainability of Caribbean farming. The Indonesian corals were a bad plan, and adequate treatment did not exist, although we saw no evidence of any movement of those species to the local coastal area - fortunately.

It is an extraordinarily bad idea to use non-native species in culture efforts. You can have a place that is ideally set-up, and things still happen. Equipment breaks, storms destroy facilities, funding problems, disgruntled employees, etc. It's just not worth the risk, although invasives and non-natives are virtually everywhere in this global society. But, in almost all cases, its a bad thing, and no sense in making it worse through negligent activities. Furthermore, in the case of reef species, I am pretty comfortable saying that each locatio certaily has enough natural resources to condentrate on a plethora of beautiful and commercially viable local species - why even consider doing otherwise. If one truly wants to mariculture a specific species, then taking the effort to do it right, even if it entails moving locations, should be a relatively minor hurdle for someone with that goal.

I confess that I have entertained the thought that some fast growing tolerant I-P species liek P. dam might be "just the thing" for Caribbean systems, but it's just a thought. I would never even remotely consider the idea that this should actually happen.

 

[dizzy]

It is an extraordinarily bad idea to use non-native species in culture efforts. You can have a place that is ideally set-up, and things still happen. Equipment breaks, storms destroy facilities, funding problems, disgruntled employees, etc. It's just not worth the risk, although invasives and non-natives are virtually everywhere in this global society. But, in almost all cases, its a bad thing, and no sense in making it worse through negligent activities. .

Wow,
Eric it almost sounds like you are taking a shot at ORA, Proaquatik, and C-Quest. While C-Quest is in Puerto Rico and seems to have gone nearly flat-line, the other two are both in Florida and close enough to the ocean that a major hurricane probably could cause a large release of non-natives species. Disgruntled employees can plague even the best of operations. Do you think operations such as the ones above should be excluded from your comments? :? Please clarify your position.