New Aquarist, New Tank

[Aggie04]

Ok well, kinda new. I have helped my girlfriend with her 29 tall reef for a while, and I decided to turn a 30 I have into a marine. I wasn't planning on doing a reef setup (with corals etc), just fish and essentials. I have a canister filter, and the whole thing is cycling (set it up over the last few days).

I figure I will give it 4-6 weeks before I put any fish in there. I have 40lbs of Aragonite live sand (CaribSea). Should I throw in some small hermit crabs or snails to help cycle it, or just leave it be?

Now for fish. I am thinking about just putting some damsels in for starts, since they are hardy. Any other suggestions on what might go well in a starting tank? Fish that get medium big I think are actually an option because in a year or two I plan on getting a larger one (75+). I figured I could use the fish in the current one to help start the new one, too.

Any recommendations on some fish to throw in there? Or how to get my tank off to the best start? I am in Houston.

 

[Len]

:welcome:

Let the tank cycle without livestock for one to two months (the longer, the safer). I discourage adding crustaceans or snails during this time. Inverts are very sensitve to poor water chemistry, so it's a bad idea to add these critters during the cycle. To get the cycle "jump-started," you can either add a few pieces of live rock (recommended!) or feed the tank a very small amount of food weekly.

I wouldn't start with damsels, because you will almost assuredly want to remove them at a later date. Damsels get very aggressive and most people regret adding them to their tanks. There are many hardy fish that are pretty, such as captive bred Pseudochromis (basslets), Royal Grammas, captive bred clownfish, watchman gobies, blennies of all sorts, cardinalfish, dwarf angels, and hawkfish (although getting these will prevent you from getting crustaceans in the future).

BTW, don't cycle your tank with damsel fish. Nowadays, it's recognized you don't need fish to cycle the tank. All you need is nitrogenous nutrients, and this can be accomplished more humanely with live rock, finelychopped shrimps from the market, or any other meaty foods.

I personally wouldn't add any medium to big fish. I understand you plan on getting a new tank in a year or two, but it's safer to stick with small community fish for the 29 gallon IMO. Besides, most medium to large fish grow very quickly. A juvenile hogfish, for example, will triple in size in well under a year.

Hope that helps.

 

[Anonymous]

I recommend you researrch refugia and especially macro algaes. And get the macros in right from the start. In my experience that will allow the system to mature and stablize quickly.

I also agree that you should run the system fishless for at least 3-4 weeks. To allow fish born parasites to die off from lack of a host.

I cycled my current tank with mollys. Very peaceful and will help clean the tank during the cycling process. But they are probably too peaceful and will get beat up on by the later marine-only fish.

welcome and best tank ever.

 

[Anonymous]

I recommend you ignore everything beaslbob posts.

 

[Mihai]

I recommend you ignore everything beaslbob posts.

I second that. And listen to Len. He gave you excellent advice.
M.

 

[Anonymous]

I recommend you ignore everything beaslbob posts.

I second that. And listen to Len. He gave you excellent advice.
M.

I'll third that. Personally, I'd ditch the canister and get good skimmer... that will be the life of your tank.

Have fun!
8)

~wings~

 

[Anonymous]

The canister is useful for circulation (get more ) and the occational Carbon scrub but as wings stated, skimmers are very useful.

 

[zonkers]

OK I know I'm going to piss some people off here with this, but I'm not the kind of person to give a damn about that. Do NOT ignore ANY advice that ANYONE gives you, just accept it as one persons' experiences & then do your own research & make your own intelligent decisions. In fact, be leary of anyone who DOES tell you to ignore anyone's suggestions You will find there are some very hotly debated topics regarding various aspects of reefkeeping, & what works for some people may not for another, but there is no such thing as "the one true way".

You will likely make some mistakes, I highly doubt anyone here had a perfect marine keeping experience from day 1. Don't be afraid of making them & don't let them discourage you. Just make sure that when something goes wrong, you make your best effort to learn from it.

If there's 2 major problems new keepers could prevent from the start, its nuisance algae control & disease prevention.

Nuisance algae (hair & bubble algae, cyanobacteria [aka: blue-green algae, red slime algae]) control means nutrient control. Get Nitrate, Silicate, & Phosphate test kits & test your source water. Take steps necessary to avoid adding these to begin with (like getting an RO/DI unit) & you could save yourself a whole lot of headache.

Disease prevention means QUARANTINING new additions & maintaining the self discipline to stick to it. EVERYTHING should go through quarantine-- fish, inverts, live rock, etc. You simply will never know what exactly your going to be adding to your tank that hitched a ride otherwise.

Personally, I run both a cannister and a protein skimmer. The first fish I added to my tank (after about 2 months of running with aragonite & live rock) were Green Chromis-- members of the Damsel family. Selected both for their hardiness & also their general passivity despite being damsels. I did not originally use an RO/DI to make new water with, & paid the price for it with nuisance algae outbreaks. I have taken appropriate measures & am now winning my war. I also did not quarantine properly & have had to treat my tank for ich, not once, but twice. My mistake, but I learned from it, & my tank is now ich free.

Just one man's experience

 

[Anonymous]

I second not to use any fish to cycle the tank. Get an RO/DI system to keep you input water clean. Are you planning on having live rock? That will usually need cycling as well. Add that now. You could throw in a piece of frozen cocktail shrimp but if you add LR that shouldn't be neccessary. Keep checking you tanks parameters and keep the tank un-lit for a few weks to help keep some nusuance algaes at bay. Best of luck.
_________________
Ladder Day Saints - Mormonism Forum

 

[Anonymous]

OK I know I'm going to piss some people off here with this, but I'm not the kind of person to give a damn about that. Do NOT ignore ANY advice that ANYONE gives you, just accept it as one persons' experiences & then do your own research & make your own intelligent decisions. In fact, be leary of anyone who DOES tell you to ignore anyone's suggestions You will find there are some very hotly debated topics regarding various aspects of reefkeeping, & what works for some people may not for another, but there is no such thing as "the one true way".

Yeah, you're right. Here's Bob's tank. You decide.

~wings~

 

[Sugar Magnolia]

OK I know I'm going to piss some people off here with this, but I'm not the kind of person to give a damn about that. Do NOT ignore ANY advice that ANYONE gives you, just accept it as one persons' experiences & then do your own research & make your own intelligent decisions. In fact, be leary of anyone who DOES tell you to ignore anyone's suggestions You will find there are some very hotly debated topics regarding various aspects of reefkeeping, & what works for some people may not for another, but there is no such thing as "the one true way".

Yeah, you're right. Here's Bob's tank. You decide.

~wings~

***snicker***

 

[Aggie04]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I didn't even know about protein skimmers until I started poking around here, so I will get one one I start to stock the tank.

I am going to get some live rock in the next few days. should I cure it in a bucket, then? with a small powerhead?

I don't have any kind of quarantine tank, but I guess one of those small critter type things would work, right? The problem is keeping filtration and circulation for the quarantined fish, that would be a whole new set of equipment. How long is typical quarantine?

 

[Mihai]

OK I know I'm going to piss some people off here with this, but I'm not the kind of person to give a damn about that. Do NOT ignore ANY advice that ANYONE gives you, just accept it as one persons' experiences & then do your own research & make your own intelligent decisions. In fact, be leary of anyone who DOES tell you to ignore anyone's suggestions You will find there are some very hotly debated topics regarding various aspects of reefkeeping, & what works for some people may not for another, but there is no such thing as "the one true way".

There is some truth in here. But only some. I'd say that for a beginner is good to get a start in the right direction without reinventing the wheel and going through a tank like Bob's and then coming to ask questions about how to get rid of algae and ich. Regarding own experiences, I'm trying to minimize mine: I'm trying to learn from other people's experiences.

Of course that's my advice, take it or leave it.
M.

 

[Rikko]

I always suggest beginners pick up a comprehensive book on the subject to get a good grounding in everything before they start and especially before they turn to the 'net... There is simply too much data online and it's too difficult for someone to be able to give you exactly what you need to hear. If a respected author can give you the rundown on the basics of reefkeeping, then you can explore those topics in depth online - and very often discover through other people or your own experience that your authors are old fashioned, not considering everything, or maybe even plain wrong.

For my money, "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner is still probably the best beginner's book. It has sufficiently candid discussion about all the backend technology (filtration etc), and a pretty handy generalized reference towards the end covering all the major groups of fishes and inverts.

Got any test kits? You can track your cycle if you pick up an ammonia test.. Once your ammonia disappears your cycle is pretty well over (well, nitrite might be up a bit but it's not really problematic in saltwater in the concentrations we're likely to see) - at that point you could add a few snails or something to start cleanup, but in my experience a new tank will always get a groady diatom or hair algae or something bloom.

You can decide if you want any hermit crabs - I personally trust them about as far as I can throw my tank. (Though I do have one token blue-leg that I watch like a hawk)

 

[Anonymous]

Totally agree, Rikko. Ya can't beat a good book.

~wings~

 

[Anonymous]

I don't have any kind of quarantine tank, but I guess one of those small critter type things would work, right? The problem is keeping filtration and circulation for the quarantined fish, that would be a whole new set of equipment. How long is typical quarantine?

Aggie, a quarantine tank doesn't have to have it's own filtration. What you would do is siphon out any leftover food and fish poo every day, and replace that water with water from your main tank (which you replace with w bit of new water) This keeps any cycle at bay. There are lots of threads here on Q tanks. There is a search botton on the top of the page here, put in "quarantine tank" and click "search for all terms".

 

[Chemical_Whore]

I would have to agree, I did about 5 years of on and off reading on salt tanks then about 5 good months of serious reserch on it all, I did all the tests and cycled it with out anything in there but some live rock. I still dont have a skimmer and really to tell you the truth I dont have any more then a plan of running it for about 3 hours after the 30 min I allow for feeding to happen in my tank. I do agree the reserch into a fuge, it looks like it will help out but from my study so far I couldent tell you one way or the other. LISEN TO EVERYONE, then yes read all about it, you know that they had salt tanks some 40 years ago that were doing well (thats as far back as I have heard so I could be wrong on how long they have een really doning them) and they had no where near the tech we have this day, so there may be something as simple as just adding this house hold thing to it that wil make it run like a dream or maybe drop something in by mistake and damn my tank cleared up, but rememeber long term effects are something you are looking at as well.

but the best thing for your tank is your eyes, look at it read about it, log it all, this is more like a home science project then anything else, but they are your pets and you want to make sure you treat them to a life or better then they would have had in there natrual enviroment. and keep a smile on your face, but I dont think you will have that problem once you look at that water and even that one cleaner shrimp you have while you look into your fish.

Jake
all spelling mistakes are thanks to the lovely schools in kentucky ~~

 

[zonkers]

I had also purchased Bob Fenner's Conscientious Marine Aquarist. Another excellent book is Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies-- a great primer to get through that inital overwhelming layer of concepts & terminology.

As for who to listen to & who not to, one has to consider-- are the tanks' water parameters good? Are the animals healthy? Does the keeper find it relaxing & pleasing? If so, then that is a good tank. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Don't be a reef snob!

 

[Anonymous]

One thing that I have done, when trying to decide how to run my tanks, is I go to the various reef tank magazines such as http://www.advancedaquarist.com/ , and I look for their featured tanks that truly stand out.

Then I read about what the owners of those awesome tanks do, what brand and type equipment they own, and what water perameters they monitor, and think about how that applies to my situation.

 

[Anonymous]

I particulary like this link from saltwater aquariums for dummies:

http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/Dummies ... -PETS.html

which contains :

The sterility syndrome
The primary reason that people find algae to be a problem is associated with the sterility syndrome. Many new aquarists think that a sterile-looking aquarium is a clean and healthy aquarium, so they remove as much of the algae as they can at all times to keep it clean-looking. Well, this belief couldn't be further from the truth. Next time you go snorkeling or diving in the ocean, look closely at the rocks, coral, and sand: You'll see algae literally covering all the exposed surfaces.

Algae are an integral part of the natural coral reef ecosystem. Many species of fish and invertebrates feed exclusively on algae and some important species of algae actually live inside some invertebrates, providing them food. Don't succumb to the sterility syndrome. Get used to seeing algae and promoting algal growth in your aquarium, yet routinely removing some of it to maintain a clear view of your pets and to get rid of excess nutrients.