fluidized bed question

[Anonymous]

Well Chris we just have different experiences is all. When you have seen Fw tank run for years with nothing other than plants then you can understand where I am comming from. Just like the tank in this thread: http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=60020. When you have seen a FO salt tank go from 160+ nitrates to 0.0 in three weeks with only macros then you can understand. Both cases no circulation not even an air stone.

I think we both agree that a 3-4 day power outage is disasterous to anyone. Because as I stated before, we don't set up our tank that way. But if we used in tank refugiums powered by the sun (south facing window) then a 3-4 day power outage would be much less of a concern. Even the plant life (algae) that makes live rock work could survive.

And the battery can be used to power lighting for an in tank refug as well as an air pump.

If I understand your points here correctly, my tank should crash every week. But things are thriving. After all I do a fw rinse of all my crushed oyster shells each week. Obviously all the saltwater bacteria is killed off. Yet the fish and corals continue to thrive as if nothing happened.

As I said we just have different experiences.

 

[ChrisRD]

Well Chris we just have different experiences is all.

On this we agree. The more you post, the more it's obvious that you have no experience running a reef tank with anything other than your "method" and a handful of unsubstantiated theories...

Unfortunately, the point you repeatedly miss in these discussions is that algae filtration is nothing new to the reef aquarium hobby and many people on this board have plenty of experience with it as well as other systems (which you obviously do not). Those folks understand the differences and limitations of these respective systems in practice. You do not.

When you have seen a FO salt tank go from 160+ nitrates to 0.0 in three weeks with only macros then you can understand.

I understand completely Bob. You didn't know how to run the tank properly before adding the macros. Algae filtration can be a useful tool in some situations, but it is far from the cure-all you mistakenly think it is.

And the battery can be used to power lighting for an in tank refug as well as an air pump.

Battery powered lighting? :lol: Maybe a candle would work Bob... :wink:

The question here was about using a fluidized bed in a saltwater setup and I think the point has been well made that there are far better options.

 

[Anonymous]

So the solution is to stear people away from a particular solution because it is too efficient at breaking down waste products into plant food. and then insure the plant life is there to consume that plant food.

Meanwhile a simple FO system with a UGF ran for 6 continuous years with fish spawing in it. All a fluidized bed filter does is allow maintenance without having to tear apart the entire tank. Seems to me that is a worthy improvement on a system that lasts for years and years. I guess that is just not in vogue right now.

 

[Tackett]

'en vogue or not. FBF suck balls. period.

 

[HClH2OFish]

I was gonna reply to Bob, but Chris beat me to it......

 

[ChrisRD]

So the solution is to stear people away from a particular solution because it is too efficient at breaking down waste products into plant food. and then insure the plant life is there to consume that plant food.

If you want to run a reef as if it's a planted freshwater tank that's your business. Most people here want to grow corals, not plants and your "advice" is far from the complete picture and very misleading.

Meanwhile a simple FO system with a UGF ran for 6 continuous years with fish spawing in it. All a fluidized bed filter does is allow maintenance without having to tear apart the entire tank. Seems to me that is a worthy improvement on a system that lasts for years and years. I guess that is just not in vogue right now.

Most of the techniques employed today are the result of trial-n-error by long-time experienced reefkeepers. Many things will work for an FO tank that aren't going to fly with a reef. What's "best" depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Simple nitrifying filters and algae scrubbers are not the best solution for every setup. Believe what you want...

 

[Anonymous]

then expain this skimmerless refugium powered nano:

http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthr ... tchen+nano

 

[ChrisRD]

then expain this skimmerless refugium powered nano:

http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthr ... tchen+nano

Bob, you've missed the point (again).

I use no skimmer... I use a refugium with macroalgae, carbon, and lots of water movement... oh yeah... and a 1 to 1 1/2 gallon water change a week (priceless)...

As for calcium, originally I started with just B-ionic. After like three months though, I think around October or November, the tank was using up way too much calcium to be replenished by B-ionic alone... ...so I started dosing B-ionic on top of the kalk...

Doesn't sound much like the system you recommend... ...how many times do you have to disprove your own "methods" before you start to get it...?

If you're looking for another endless debate - start another thread and stop hijacking this one.

 

[Anonymous]

chris:

I am glad you agree that a skimmerless system with a refugium, carbon filter, lotsa movement, a 10-20% weekly waterchange, and dosing calcium results in a awesome reef tank that maintains spss, clams and everything else.


radar!

carbon filters are also considered nitrate traps. So the only thing on Fluidized bed filters is what should be used for the filter media. The fludized bed is just to keep the sand moving and prevent anerobic pockets. Other than that it is basically a reversed canister type filter. I you have already purchased one I think you would be OK to use it. IMO

 

[Tackett]

Radar, use it if you want dude, but keep a eyeball on those NO3 numbers. When they start to climb, take it off. Its possible that they wont, but I doubt it. The only way to learn is to do it. Let us know what happens if you dont care.

 

[HClH2OFish]

chris:

I am glad you agree that a skimmerless system with a refugium, carbon filter, lotsa movement, a 10-20% weekly waterchange, and dosing calcium results in a awesome reef tank that maintains spss, clams and everything else.

Bob, why do you constantly dodge the points of posts to you refuting or correcting your incorrect assumptions?

I didn't read anything where Chris said he agreed with you. I saw how he was pointing out things done on that nano that you have, in other posts, said are not needed and unnecessary. Guess you have a different font on your machine that changes what you see to what you *want* to see..lol

 

[Anonymous]

It is not dodging points by finding agreements. Chris obviously agrees that tank is awesome or he would have stated otherwise. So chris and I both agree that those operations results in an awesome tank.

that tank is only one datum that a refugium maintains a system. As the poster in the other thread also agrees.

So the assumption that a refugium with plant life will maintain a reef tank has yet another verification. the only disagreement is on the absolute necessity of mechanical filtrations and water changes. I use mechanical filtration but no water changes on my reef tank. On my FW systems I use no filteration or circulation and no water changes.

I have never posted nor recommended anything different. I have posted some extreme examples in salt of macro only actions that maintained nitrates at 0. But I do recommend some circulation and calcium buffering for reef tanks.

 

[HClH2OFish]

Bob:
True, but the way you arrange your posts, you make it seem like people are agreeing with not your point, but rather your methods, which I can assure you they don't!

Let's concentrate on the subject of the thread though...Fluidized bed filters...If you want to start another thread on methods, fine...lets not hijack.

If you've got a FO setup and want to try one, go ahead. In a reef however, IMHO you don't want it. Just like canister filters, biowheels, etc.
In the long term they can cause more problems than they help....

Just my .02

 

[ChrisRD]

If you're looking for another endless debate - start another thread and stop hijacking this one.

 

[Anonymous]

Of the dozens of people that I have known to be completely sold on the FBF concept in the 80's for reef tanks not a single one is now running a reef with one.

It doesn't matter what the arguments for and against the theory are if in practice they just don't work all that well.

 

[Tackett]

It doesn't matter what the arguments for and against the theory are if in practice they just don't work all that well.

about the tenth time I read that, I understood it. :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

When you have seen a FO salt tank go from 160+ nitrates to 0.0 in three weeks with only macros then you can understand.

Here are some quotes that may interest some of you:

04/30/2003

The 55g nitrates are around 40 PPM and going down.

04/30/2003

The Gracilaria has been in the 55g for about 2 months and is still there. More and more of the Caulerpa is remaining in the 55g each week.

05/22/2003

In my 55g weekly tests nitrates are from 30-50 ppm.

06/10/2003

I also have nitrAtes ar 40 ppm and my anemone is still alive after 2 months.

10/14/2003

Nitrates in 55g display are now down to 10 ppm.

10/27/2003

My 55g display with refug is now 20 ppm.

 

[Anonymous]

It doesn't matter what the arguments for and against the theory are if in practice they just don't work all that well.

about the tenth time I read that, I understood it. :lol:

hmmmm I understood it the first time I wrote it but it only took 3 or 4 times at reading it to understand it

 

[ChrisRD]

FWIW, I understood it Guy.

Those quotes are interesting... ...apparently 6 months and still 20 PPM... ...what happenend to 0.0 after 3 weeks?... :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

...what happenend to 0.0 after 3 weeks?... :lol:

Bob has explained that several times Chris... you see, we just don't understand. :roll: