Freshwater dip....

[jbpig]

My Purple tang of 3 years seems to be showing signs of ich, I had planned on doing a freshwater dip in the am but I am not sure on how long to let him n the fresh water? Is there a rule of thumb for the size of the fish? Or do ya'll just leave them in the freshwater for like 30 sec, and how stressful is this on the fish? I have heard this is a good way to get rid if ich without meds. Anything would help.

TIA
JB

 

[Anonymous]

You will need to match your freshwater to your tanks pH and temperature. Use a 3 gallon bucket, add an airstone and a 5gal. heater to maintain the temperature.
Leave the tang in the dip for ten minutes, no less. Watch him for signs of stress, but he should be fine for that period of time.
You can follow up in a few days time with a formalin dip.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd skip the freshwater dip entirely. Too much stress, imo...causing more harm than good. How is your tang doing? What are your water params like? If your water quality is good, your tank has a moderate bioload, and your tang seems to be eating and doing well, I would just wait it out. My gramma gets ich once or twice a year...it always ends up going away.

Jmo!

Chris

 

[Anonymous]

I'm with Unleashed. I've done more f/w dips than I can count. However, it won't do ya much good if you put the fish back into the same system.

 

[jbpig]

I do have a UV, just not plugged in right now. The tank has been set up for 3 years now and never any problems like this. The tang is eating extremly well and isnt acting any different at all.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm with Chris. FW dips are too stressful on an already sick and stressed fish, IMO. Feed some garlic soaked food, get a cleaner shrimp, do a water change, remove to a Q tank and treat with reduced salinity for awhile, etc. Don't torture the poor fish by putting it into osmotic shock.


(I'm now putting on my flame-retardant underoos because I know sea is going to jump all over me. )

 

[jbpig]

Well upon examination of the tang this am, it seems as the ich is going away. It is not as covered as yesterday. I will do a water change and I am allready feeding garlic soaked food, but i will add more garlic juice. Thanks to allo who replied!

JB

 

[Anonymous]

The ich will appear to go away, and then come back stronger... the parasite has a life cycle which you should read up on. I don't have a link, sorry.
There are times when ich can be successfully fought off by the host without your help, but you need to watch things closely, and use your best judgement. If you do not treat, you need to figure out the cause of the infestation. In other words, if the tank parameters are off, the fish is stressed from other sources, you need to address whatever is out of whack. For example, if the fish was recently acquired, the ich can be left untreated (but carefully monitored in case it gets worse...) But if you have had the animal a while, then why did it get ich? Keep in mind that ich can also be a secondary problem, ie. fish with internal infections.
Lowering the salinity will also work, so will raising the temp of the tank. Basically any method you choose is fine, but killing parasites inevitably means stressing the fish, no matter which method you choose. For what it's worth, I find the ten minute dip the best alternative, myself. I have had much success with this. Even when you are putting the fish back into the same tank/system, your fish can recuperate quite well.

 

[jbpig]

Thank You All!

 

[Anonymous]

Our library, Advanced Aquarist, and WetWebMedia all have information that supports this.

I would say that my experience is on par with Unleash'd's (though I believe she's still working the trade) - no doubt between the two of us we've probably handled many thousands of fish. I know few folks in the trade who haven't learned to make good use of those dips.

I guess what I'm trying to say is heed her words, it's really good advice she's giving.

 

[Anonymous]

Seamaidenly, I do still work in the industry, yes, and unfortunately I have handled a lot of sick fish. Thank you for your post
It's depressing to work in the trade, because you see exactly how often fish get sick. I consider my tankroom to be one of the healthiest in town, but I still see sick fish on far too regular a basis.
Not all fish respond the same way to certain treatments, sometimes you have to make choices and take calculated risks. This is what makes it difficult to assess peoples problems online, we can't see their fish or their tank parameters, and there is a higher chance they can fail despite our efforts to help them figure out the problem.

 

[Anonymous]

We do FW dips at the shop all the time. It is vitally important that the temp and pH are the same as your tank. Tangs handle the stress better than most (Powder blues are the exception), actually had a yellow take a 2 hour bath once (we got busy and overlooked him ) with no ill effects. Just pay close attention to the details and you should be okay.

But I do agree that it won't solve the problems completely. Make sure you do it in addition to using garlic, and keep the salinity up, dropping it slightly doesn't so anything. Keep it at NSW levels and make the tank as stable and stress free as possible.

 

[Anonymous]

I still respectfully disagree on FW dips. Catching my tang in my 180g with all of the LR is damn near impossible...and the stress to my tang in doing so is significant, imo. I can understand a qt, and applying the various medications in that environment...but fw dips? I understand how one could get the temperature of a dip close, but what about pH? For the novice reefkeeper, how is that done?

I'm not looking for a fight here...I guess fw dips just make me nervous. :wink:

Chris

 

[Anonymous]

Chris, removing a sick fish from a tank like yours requires artistry and luck. Not to mention help from the gods. Damn near impossible, in other words. It is important to q-tank all new fish, I agree, but once a fish is in such a tank, it's important to monitor tank parameters and try to prevent problems from arising. Cuz, once they do, you are S.O.L.
Adjusting the pH by means of a buffer, and then testing the water, is how you can match the pH. After a few trys, it becomes easier. Add a tiny bit of buffer at a time, and keep testing, until your bucket pH matches the tank. Keep track of how much buffer you added, for the next time

There are reef safe products you can add to reef tanks, but I have not heard of anyone having success, perhaps because they have not found the cause of the stress in the first place and fixed the problem, but it's hard to say if that would make a difference, I have not studied this.
Your only other hope is to lower the salinity, I prefer not to advise that, since it's hard to say what the effect would be on your corals and inverts. Some folks do this, however. Lower your specific gravity to around 1.016 or so...do it slowly, over a period of days, and jack up the heat to around 84. This is not my solution, just A solution.

I would love to try one of the new acrylic traps made to catch reef fish, it would certainly be helpful when it comes time to isolate a fish for medication purposes.

 

[Anonymous]

Hypo in a reef setting is likely to be disastrous, especially if housing echinoderms and the like. Because a f/w dip is for such a short period of time, there is nothing wrong with using the "tried and true" baking soda trick. Always worked like a charm for me (though it was always much harder taking f/w fishes to a salt dip and lowering that pH without an immediate bounce).

To speak to the issues of catching the animal, I can only offer that once someone has had a bit of experience in a retail/wholesale setting, believe me, they can get that fish. On the whole, however, it's helpful for most hobbyists if one leaves an open area of the tank (one end or the other) that can be quickly and easily blocked off with a bit of acrylic, egg crate, or the like. There is also a method a young man I worked with years ago used, where he set an odd sort of "trap with a plastic box - holes punched through it - with fishing line attached. The fish would get over the box, and he would slowly pull it up til BAM! Sonofagun if it didn't work for him every time. It was quite the trick.. maybe he was so good because he was a Chiracahua Apache Indian.. :|

 

[jbpig]

Well catching it will be a blistering task as my tank is 150 with 350lbs of rock! i constructed it with many, many, many hiding holes and places to "quickly" get out of sight. I will probally regret it now! However as of about 1 hr ago the tang looked much better than yesterday so I believe I will stick it out. I dusted off my UV that I haven used in 2 years and will put that on the tank tommorow. Speaking ov UV's what would ya'll think of having it on a timer and not running 24/7? I thought maybe reverse the light/UV cycle.....any thoughts?

 

[Anonymous]

Sea, thanks. Then I believe the lowering salinity thing should be kept to FOWLR tanks.
I agree that it's easy to catch fish when you do it all day long. And folks who don't work in the industry can have a hell of a time doing so. I know people who have been keeping fish for 20 years but can't catch a fat goldfish in a bowl LOL
I would love to hear from anyone who has used the acrylic trap.

jb, the uv system is fine, in conjunction with other things, but it won't help your fish now...uv only kills what is carried thru it.

 

[Anonymous]

uv only kills what is carried thru it.

But it should kill free swimming ich...err, right?

 

[Anonymous]

Chris, yes, ideally. But in a tank that size, there is no guarantee that all the parasites are being uv'd...it is possible for the life cycle to continue, and for the parasites to re-infest, even with uv running. Something that swims can avoid being filtered, or in this case, uv'd. The uv will kill some, but there is no guarantee on it killing ALL the parasites in the free swimming stage.

 

[Terry B]

I do not recommend FW dips as a treatment for ich. FW dips are not very effective, will not cure ich and they are highly stressful to the fish. It is best to prevent the situation in the first place by quarantining all new fish BEFORE they go into a reef tank. This will prevent the vast majority of ich infections in your display tank. Once you get ich in a reef tank the only consistently reliable treatments require moving the fish to another tank for treatment and leaving the reef without fish for 30+ days.
There are lots of purported treatments for ich, unfortunately most of them do not work consistently or don't work at all. If you cannot or will not remove the fish to another tank for treatment then you should be prepared to lose some or all of the fish. About the best you can do if you MUST treat for ich in a reef tank is to feed the fish garlic soaked foods plus use a powerful UV.
For future reference, read up on quarantine and hyposalinity.
Terry B