need to dose kalk if i have nsw?
- Thread starter dallast1
- Start date
WTF is NSW? Natural sea water I presume? If you have a constant flow thru system, then no, no need to dose, but in a captive/closed system, alk and Ca ion along with the host of other trace and minor elements will deplete quickly thru calcification and other mineralization processes.
Unless the water you're using is high quality, strained and free of any external source of pollution, and you can get it in sufficient quantity to do a partial water change every few days, you'll still ned to dose to keep parameters in the ballpark.
Unless the water you're using is high quality, strained and free of any external source of pollution, and you can get it in sufficient quantity to do a partial water change every few days, you'll still ned to dose to keep parameters in the ballpark.
Depends how often you are doing water changes. If you're doing 25% waterchanges weekly and don't have a huge calcium demand, you should be able to do it without too much problem. However if you've got a large calcium demand, waterchanges alone may not be able to keep up. I'd suggest monitoring your calcium and alkalinity and see if you can do it or not.
Shane
Shane
I'm trying to figure out how many of his hoses can help me out here in Missouri! Anyone? Darn my math skills.
Seriously, though, aren't there more problems with using NSW, such as increased organic nutrients? Unless you get the water straight from a reef, which would require some SERIOUSLY long hoses, it'll most likely be from the West coast. Those are kelp forests, with more dissolved organics than reefs. Just a question. If I used it, I would certainly supplement unless my testing results said otherwise. But, if you have a lot of stonies in there, or clams that are calcium hogs, I'd consider dosing just considering how much of the calcium is taken out of the water by tube worms, calcareous algae, useless deposits that clog up my filters. Wait, that's my problem... :wink:
Good luck!
Sara
Seriously, though, aren't there more problems with using NSW, such as increased organic nutrients? Unless you get the water straight from a reef, which would require some SERIOUSLY long hoses, it'll most likely be from the West coast. Those are kelp forests, with more dissolved organics than reefs. Just a question. If I used it, I would certainly supplement unless my testing results said otherwise. But, if you have a lot of stonies in there, or clams that are calcium hogs, I'd consider dosing just considering how much of the calcium is taken out of the water by tube worms, calcareous algae, useless deposits that clog up my filters. Wait, that's my problem... :wink:
Good luck!
Sara
thanks for the input, all!
yes, i thought as much to keep dosing. water changes are not nearly 25 % per week, i can assure you.
where do i get natural sea water (nsw) from here in las vegas, well we have two companies here that supply it, but i use seawater express. they go down to l.a. once a week, pick up a big tanker full of nsw from catalina water, then truck it back to vegas. well, actually pahrump, where the fellow has a shrimp farm.
he then re-filters the water (the water was already filtered by catalina) and sells excess to local reefers, restaurants and pool owners.
will keep testing parameters for reef quality water (both ca and alk are on the low side).
dallast
yes, i thought as much to keep dosing. water changes are not nearly 25 % per week, i can assure you.
where do i get natural sea water (nsw) from here in las vegas, well we have two companies here that supply it, but i use seawater express. they go down to l.a. once a week, pick up a big tanker full of nsw from catalina water, then truck it back to vegas. well, actually pahrump, where the fellow has a shrimp farm.
he then re-filters the water (the water was already filtered by catalina) and sells excess to local reefers, restaurants and pool owners.
will keep testing parameters for reef quality water (both ca and alk are on the low side).
dallast
I use west coast water from Bodega Bay, just north of Point Reyes/ SF Bay, in my 6 gallon tank with no problems at all. It's also used on the 180 gallon reef tank at my university (for at least 10 years now) with no problems either. Sprung and Delbeek describe using water from the North Atlantic in their reef tanks with no problems. I see no reason why water has to be from a "reef" to be usable.
I agree with Matt. I use the same nsw in my 6 gallon eclipse. However, what Matt forgot to add is that on all three tanks (his eclipse6, my eclipse6, and the 180 reef) we use kalkwasser to top-off. I think that the use of nsw helps the tanks in many ways, but since it is a closed system, you will still need to add calcium and buffer. Check out some old pics of the 180. That carpet anemone has been doing really well for ~10 years.
Mike
Mike
I use Catalina Water (along with kalk and occasional B-Ionic additions) and I like it. I'd be a little leery of the shrimp farmer who "re-filters" the Catalina Water. Exactly how (and why) does he re-filter it? Perhaps he's using it in his system first, then selling it....whcih would mean it might be high in organics.....
Kevin
Kevin
Truck. That was my next guess. 
I would for sure test any new source of water ca/alk and organics and then test every batch. That being said, I personally would stick with IO. Last time I've seen NSW was on vacation. What does Catalina water go for?
I would for sure test any new source of water ca/alk and organics and then test every batch. That being said, I personally would stick with IO. Last time I've seen NSW was on vacation. What does Catalina water go for?I would like to know how a shrimp farmer can depend on trucking in seawater from several hundred miles away. We have some shrimp farms in this area (local environmentalists hate them) and they have 2 36" pipes pumping in water from the local bay (1/2 mile away) The effluent drains back into our local bay system and contains all kinds of foreign bacteria and viruses (usually originating in the far east, since the farmed shrimp are not the same species as live here) Anyway, unless the shrimp farm that you are talking about is tiny, I doubt that they could get enough water in by trucking it. They are probably telling you that it is fresh seawater, but in reality, it might be filtered effluent from their farm. They may be making salt water by using local salt deposits and mixing it with fresh water.
thanks for the concern, but this guy is legit. he refilters because he wants his water as "clean" as he can get it. and no, he does not sell the effluent to everyone. believe me, we have many reefers here in vegas using this water and all of us test it -- it's good stuff. he would lose his business if otherwise!
this leads back to my original query because one of the users is so convinced of this water's quality, he said that dosing was not needed.
i do believe the shrimp farm is quite small...i have not seen though, so can't confirm.
anyway, i will continue dosing...i am fighting a red turf algae problem at the moment...hoping new yellow tang will fix it (early signs look good )
dallast
this leads back to my original query because one of the users is so convinced of this water's quality, he said that dosing was not needed.
i do believe the shrimp farm is quite small...i have not seen though, so can't confirm.
anyway, i will continue dosing...i am fighting a red turf algae problem at the moment...hoping new yellow tang will fix it (early signs look good
)dallast
Dallast-
It really depends on your Ca consumption and frequency of water changes. If you have many SPS corals then you probably will still need to dose kalk.
As for your yellow tang eating the red turf algae, I don't think you will have any luck there. How long has the tank been set up? What are your parameters? (nitrates, phophates) How big is the tank? What fish do you have? How much LR? Do you have a sand bed? How much circulation?
Ernie
It really depends on your Ca consumption and frequency of water changes. If you have many SPS corals then you probably will still need to dose kalk.
As for your yellow tang eating the red turf algae, I don't think you will have any luck there. How long has the tank been set up? What are your parameters? (nitrates, phophates) How big is the tank? What fish do you have? How much LR? Do you have a sand bed? How much circulation?
Ernie
There's no reason a tank with NSW would not need regular Ca additions simply because it's NSW. If anything, I suspect it probably contains less calcium than artificial sea water. I don't supplement anything in my tank except Calcium/Alkalinity. The rest of the trace elements can be replenished with water changes.
I would borrow or buy a really good Phosphate and Nitrate test kit if you suspect the water is effluent. Most aquaculture facilities, even when they do use an intensive, recirculating system, have high levels of these in their water. The basic concept in aquaculture is to cram in as many creatures as you can without affecting the water quality to where it will affect the animal's health. Typically, the limiting factors in a recirculating system are the nitrogen compounds and dissolved oxygen. The shrimp farmer may be keeping his nitrates low enough to keep his shrimp healthy, but they may be off the charts for what is acceptable in a reef tank.
I would borrow or buy a really good Phosphate and Nitrate test kit if you suspect the water is effluent. Most aquaculture facilities, even when they do use an intensive, recirculating system, have high levels of these in their water. The basic concept in aquaculture is to cram in as many creatures as you can without affecting the water quality to where it will affect the animal's health. Typically, the limiting factors in a recirculating system are the nitrogen compounds and dissolved oxygen. The shrimp farmer may be keeping his nitrates low enough to keep his shrimp healthy, but they may be off the charts for what is acceptable in a reef tank.
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