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PetCo being Sued for Poor Animal Care
- Thread starter MattM
- Start date
MattM,,
Sorry, have never seen a petco but from the posts,
I assumed it was like That Fish Place in Lancaster (warehouse).
As such, they do buy in truckload quantities and they do buy and sell much cheaper than most of us retailers can.
Also, I do not agree that it is the manufacturers job to police where their products are sold, but is strictly the managements job of any given store, to keep their quality up.
FYI - Our local PetCo stocks about 15 SKUs from Kent Marine - we carry over 60. And our prices on Kent are 5-20% LESS than the local PetCo.
Sorry, have never seen a petco but from the posts,
I assumed it was like That Fish Place in Lancaster (warehouse).
As such, they do buy in truckload quantities and they do buy and sell much cheaper than most of us retailers can.
Also, I do not agree that it is the manufacturers job to police where their products are sold, but is strictly the managements job of any given store, to keep their quality up.
flameangel":1717scxw said:Also, I do not agree that it is the manufacturers job to police where their products are sold, but is strictly the managements job of any given store, to keep their quality up.
Agreed. Such logic as akin to saying that since people with Toyotas speed, the manufacturer should make them slow down, or not sell to leadfoots.
Chucker,
I am interested to understand the reasons why you don't think manufacturers have a responsibility in this problem; however your example does help me with that.
Your example does not follow the logic I am proposing at all, it focuses on the issue of consumer responsibility when it comes to the USE of a purchased product. The question we are pondering is "who is responsible for ensuring that places like Petco cannot start or maintain a business for profit while showing disregard for their livestock."
When dealing with problems, our society tends to focus on solutions that negatively affect the least amount of people. A novel goal, but typically these solutions don't get to the root of the problem. We tend to pinch off the ugly flowers as they appear rather than ripping it out by the roots.
My proposal grabs at the root of this problem. Putting all the responsibility on the consumer only pinches a dead flower. Consider the following "formula",
Variable 1: Kent Marine supplies kalkwasser to Petco, to sell for profit.
Variable 2: Consumers choose to buy Kent KW from Petco.
Resultant: Petco profits from the sale of Kent KW which helps them stays in business.
Remove variable 1 AND 2 from this equation, and the resultant does not exist. By removing just one of the variables, you only partially impact the resultant.
The negative effects associated with my solution are that quality-oriented LFS's are affected as well as Petco. Boycotting products means not buying them at the LFS either, until the results are obtained. This is a roots and all proposal. Manufacturers would eventually have to respond and they would, but in the mean time, lots of people would be negatively affected - not just the consumer pocket book.
Back to your example with Toyota, it helps me with my point. You can't buy a Toyota from the ethically-questionable, used-car guy down the road. Toyotas are only sold thru licensed, authorized, retailers. That methodology is in part what I am saying we need.
Karen
I am interested to understand the reasons why you don't think manufacturers have a responsibility in this problem; however your example does help me with that.
Your example does not follow the logic I am proposing at all, it focuses on the issue of consumer responsibility when it comes to the USE of a purchased product. The question we are pondering is "who is responsible for ensuring that places like Petco cannot start or maintain a business for profit while showing disregard for their livestock."
When dealing with problems, our society tends to focus on solutions that negatively affect the least amount of people. A novel goal, but typically these solutions don't get to the root of the problem. We tend to pinch off the ugly flowers as they appear rather than ripping it out by the roots.
My proposal grabs at the root of this problem. Putting all the responsibility on the consumer only pinches a dead flower. Consider the following "formula",
Variable 1: Kent Marine supplies kalkwasser to Petco, to sell for profit.
Variable 2: Consumers choose to buy Kent KW from Petco.
Resultant: Petco profits from the sale of Kent KW which helps them stays in business.
Remove variable 1 AND 2 from this equation, and the resultant does not exist. By removing just one of the variables, you only partially impact the resultant.
The negative effects associated with my solution are that quality-oriented LFS's are affected as well as Petco. Boycotting products means not buying them at the LFS either, until the results are obtained. This is a roots and all proposal. Manufacturers would eventually have to respond and they would, but in the mean time, lots of people would be negatively affected - not just the consumer pocket book.
Back to your example with Toyota, it helps me with my point. You can't buy a Toyota from the ethically-questionable, used-car guy down the road. Toyotas are only sold thru licensed, authorized, retailers. That methodology is in part what I am saying we need.
Karen
Karen,
No matter how you look at it, places like petco would not succeed if people did not shop there. As always, no matter how many parties are to blame.. the buck stops with the consumer. It is the same with all the threads on cyanide collection etc.. if people would quit only buying the cheapest fish, better fish might become available. If someone wants something, someone supplies it.
No matter how you look at it, places like petco would not succeed if people did not shop there. As always, no matter how many parties are to blame.. the buck stops with the consumer. It is the same with all the threads on cyanide collection etc.. if people would quit only buying the cheapest fish, better fish might become available. If someone wants something, someone supplies it.
You folks sound like you would rather kill the patient than cure the desease. So Petco has this desease of killing off livestock. Well, instead of killing them(boycott or whatever), why isn't something just done to cure their desease. They do have animal cruelty laws. You can't have this many cats and stuff. Somebody wants something, someone supplies it.
If you really want to go to the roots of this, it's you and me. How 'bout this formula?
Variable 1. You have a reef tank and only buy from reputable dealers(not Petco)
Variable 2. Your friend/neighbor admires your reeftank.
Variable 3. Your friend/neighbor buys his reef setup from non-reputable dealer(Petco)
Variable 4. Petco Stays in business.
Take Variable one out of the Equation, and BAM, no more Petco....
If you really want to go to the roots of this, it's you and me. How 'bout this formula?
Variable 1. You have a reef tank and only buy from reputable dealers(not Petco)
Variable 2. Your friend/neighbor admires your reeftank.
Variable 3. Your friend/neighbor buys his reef setup from non-reputable dealer(Petco)
Variable 4. Petco Stays in business.
Take Variable one out of the Equation, and BAM, no more Petco....
How would you like to be the one raising the animals PETCO is killing. Say you raise cockatiels and you handfeed them, and pour your heart into making them sweet. How would you feel if PETCO is treating them like **** and paying you well for the right to do so?
That question isn't really fair. I raise my aquarium animals, pour my heart into them, and I would only give or sell them(really wouldn't) to people that would treat them the same. If I made glass aquaruims, and Petco paid me good money for them, Sell, Sell, Sell.
Kent Marine
is a very honest, and reputable company,
they strive to provide educational advise, too everyone in this hobby,
and continuity to do what they can to improve this hobby.
They are Always donating to aquarium cubs, and help support them
AND THAT IS A FACT.
THEY ARE NOT TO BE BLAMED FOR HOW OTHERS ACT.
THEY TRY VERY HARD TO PROMOTE A GOOD HOBBY FOR US all.
IT is my opinion that the people that start threads like this,
who have other interest, but point out others shops short coming,
are not trying helping any of us.
and only causes us to look in the wrong directions.
just my opinion
is a very honest, and reputable company,
they strive to provide educational advise, too everyone in this hobby,
and continuity to do what they can to improve this hobby.
They are Always donating to aquarium cubs, and help support them
AND THAT IS A FACT.
THEY ARE NOT TO BE BLAMED FOR HOW OTHERS ACT.
THEY TRY VERY HARD TO PROMOTE A GOOD HOBBY FOR US all.
IT is my opinion that the people that start threads like this,
who have other interest, but point out others shops short coming,
are not trying helping any of us.
and only causes us to look in the wrong directions.
just my opinion
I like Kent Marine too - they are coming to my local aquarium society meeting and they have donated buckets of salt to our club in the past.
With that out of the way - that's not what we are talking about at all in this thread and it's not what the original post was about.
FWIW, manufacturers DO have a say in how they decide to be "authorized dealers" and distributors.
Scuba gear for instance - the manufacturers will only sell to their authorized dealer who have high standards, etc. They know they can trust them to recommend the right gear for a person.
Aquarium manufacturers can do this too and the truth is they probably do.
Cheers
James
With that out of the way - that's not what we are talking about at all in this thread and it's not what the original post was about.
FWIW, manufacturers DO have a say in how they decide to be "authorized dealers" and distributors.
Scuba gear for instance - the manufacturers will only sell to their authorized dealer who have high standards, etc. They know they can trust them to recommend the right gear for a person.
Aquarium manufacturers can do this too and the truth is they probably do.
Cheers
James
Hey,
Stop bashing cat people, without them chemists would be out of work designing great psychotropic medications.
Plus, a kitty is soft and loveable, except when he pisses on your $3,000 leather couch, ---wait, your point is becoming more clear.....
My vote, screw petco, tell everyone you know to do the same, hell have a petco hate party and when you're all good a liquored up, do a sit-in in front of your local petco :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Stop bashing cat people, without them chemists would be out of work designing great psychotropic medications.
Plus, a kitty is soft and loveable, except when he pisses on your $3,000 leather couch, ---wait, your point is becoming more clear.....
My vote, screw petco, tell everyone you know to do the same, hell have a petco hate party and when you're all good a liquored up, do a sit-in in front of your local petco :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Or when he decides your Naso Tang would be a tasty treat!Plus, a kitty is soft and loveable, except when he pisses on your $3,000 leather couch, ---wait, your point is becoming more clear
Seriously, the problem with petco is pretty widespread. The 2 I have seen here, and some in Ohio; are tanks full of dead fish, less than adequate care for the other animals. These guys need a MAJOR overhaul to correct their troubles, and understand that RESPONSIBLE fish/reefkeeping involves QUALITY NOT QUANTITY.
petco's going into business had nothing to do with animals, or their care-it had solely to do with going into business, and making money :roll:
thinking that anything other than legal action will get them to change is abit naive, imho. even closing a store in one location will just prompt an opening in another location :roll:
thinking that anything other than legal action will get them to change is abit naive, imho. even closing a store in one location will just prompt an opening in another location :roll:
Petco is an easy target for everyone to attack because they are everywhere. If I was to complain about the conditions in my LFS it wouldn't mean anything to someone who was not local. For ever bad Petco I am sure there is a bad LFS. I can think of 4-5 of my LFS that I would not shop at. They have dead fish, aptaisia in every tank stinging the corals, flatworms in every tank, one shop doesn't even turn on the lights in their saltwater section unless you ask them to. One of these shops keeps at least 30-40 damsels in a 5 gallon cube, 10-15 fish in 10 gallon cubes and sharks in 20 gallon cubes. Granted these tanks are on a central system, but half the fish are hovering in the corner trying to hid from all the other fish. This stores acclimation of their new fish is clip and dump. But again I ask, what good does it due to complain to others on this board who have no idea who or where the shops are?
What do I do? I simply do not buy stuff from these stores, livestock or hardgoods. I will try to talk to people there to let them know of the problems, but most of the time they really do not care. Petco's around here (or at least the ones I have seen/been to) do not carry corals, just fish. I really have no complaint about the condition of their tanks, they look better than some LFS. I really think it will depend on the staff at the store. If they happen to have gotten lucky and gotten someone who has knowledge, generally the tanks look good.
As far as boycotting the compaines who sell to petco, what about all the other stores that are not up to par. Should we also boycott their products if they are in these stores? Should we expect these compaines to check every store their products are in? I simply think this would be impossible. Going back to buying cars from licensed dealerships, I got a used car from a licensed dealership and it was a piece of junk, had to replace the brakes even though they said they checked them and they were fine. Plus numerous other problems that I will not bore you with. Simply saying a place is licensed to sell something does not neccesarily make them the best place to buy from.
It simply comes down to it is your choice where to spend your money. If you do not like the conditions of a store (whether it is a Petco or any other LFS) tell the manager/owner you will not shop there or recommend them to people until they change the conditions of the shop.
Just my 2 cents
What do I do? I simply do not buy stuff from these stores, livestock or hardgoods. I will try to talk to people there to let them know of the problems, but most of the time they really do not care. Petco's around here (or at least the ones I have seen/been to) do not carry corals, just fish. I really have no complaint about the condition of their tanks, they look better than some LFS. I really think it will depend on the staff at the store. If they happen to have gotten lucky and gotten someone who has knowledge, generally the tanks look good.
As far as boycotting the compaines who sell to petco, what about all the other stores that are not up to par. Should we also boycott their products if they are in these stores? Should we expect these compaines to check every store their products are in? I simply think this would be impossible. Going back to buying cars from licensed dealerships, I got a used car from a licensed dealership and it was a piece of junk, had to replace the brakes even though they said they checked them and they were fine. Plus numerous other problems that I will not bore you with. Simply saying a place is licensed to sell something does not neccesarily make them the best place to buy from.
It simply comes down to it is your choice where to spend your money. If you do not like the conditions of a store (whether it is a Petco or any other LFS) tell the manager/owner you will not shop there or recommend them to people until they change the conditions of the shop.
Just my 2 cents
heliofungia said:Petco is an easy target for everyone to attack because they are everywhere.
helio Petco brought this one on themselves. They were in the news for mistreating animals in their store. They were given the opportunity to cleanup their act, but failed to do so. In general poor care for their animals is probably the rule rather than the exception, in the Petco chain.
I have a store in KY and we have a Petco just down the road. People come in all the time telling us about dead hamsters in cages and all sort of disgusting stuff. I'm sure some do a better job of husbandry than others and you must live near some of the good ones. The fact that the vast majority of people posting to this thread have negative things to say about Petco speaks for itself. I think you will find a pretty good cross section of the country represented on this board. Petco is several hundred stores strong with grand schemes to top out over 1000. If only 70% of them are mistreating animals that is still far too many.
dizzy--I agree, they brought this upon themselves. If they were warned and did nothing to change the situation then it is their fault. I also agree that if 70% of them are mistreating animals that is too many. One store mistreating animals is too many. But how many LFS are there compaired to Petco and how many of them are mistreating/mishandling animals? And how do we police these stores? Animal control should have been in the store/stores in question fining the heck out of Petco. Many times the only way to make a corporation listen is to hit them in the wallet. That is where the consumer can also come in. Do not support stores that mistreat/mishandle animals.
I am not trying to make excuses for Petco, or trying to defend them. With that being said, I still stand by my statement that they are an easy target due to the fact that everyone knows about them. Again, me complaining about a bad LFS does not have the same impact as saying something about a big chain. All I was trying to point out is that it is not just Petco, this problem is larger than just them. We need to figure a way to address this issue through out the hobby.
I am not trying to make excuses for Petco, or trying to defend them. With that being said, I still stand by my statement that they are an easy target due to the fact that everyone knows about them. Again, me complaining about a bad LFS does not have the same impact as saying something about a big chain. All I was trying to point out is that it is not just Petco, this problem is larger than just them. We need to figure a way to address this issue through out the hobby.
If you saw the pie-chart that I made from my money program, you would see that shopping here in Tucson is pretty limited. Of the four stores listed, only one of them is really worthy of anybodys business. The ratio of bad stores here to good stores here is 8:1. I believe that at any given time you could walk into the latter and find dead fish/animals at any time. So I would reluctantly agree with the above statement that it is larger than just Petco. I think maybe a National News segment on avoiding the "crappy" places would really help to educate as many people as possible. The problem with that is the people that shop at those places probably don't even watch the news. Even if they watched the news, they probably won't listen. How many times have my parents told me where I didn't listen? Probably one for every gray hair my mom has now. :roll:
Good thoughts all around!
Glad to see this discussion generate so much response.... it IS important.
One LFS in the Bay Area is the merchant of death. Connie's in Castro Valley has at least one dead fish in every single tank. Often, more.
Another store has evidently had the Fish&Game Dep't crack down on them because they will order absoloutely anything for you, they don't care how illegal.
These are *not* chains.
PetCo, though, has my special disdain - I've seen hamsters cannibalizing each other, a dead goldrim tang that Corporate HQ mandates that each store carry, in spite of the protests of the (few) knowledgable fishkeepers there.
Every legitimate fish keeper that works at PetCo is disgusted, fed up, makes too many waves, and either gets fired or quits.
Complaining isn't enough. This company is evil and must be destroyed.
True, there have been countless evil despots perpetrating sinister genocide on innocents. That doesn't mean Hitler wasn't one of the worst nor worthy of everyone sacrificing their lives to stop.
No one is defending PetCo. Seems this corporation has no friends in the hobby, at least among the educated here.
Glad to see this discussion generate so much response.... it IS important.
One LFS in the Bay Area is the merchant of death. Connie's in Castro Valley has at least one dead fish in every single tank. Often, more.
Another store has evidently had the Fish&Game Dep't crack down on them because they will order absoloutely anything for you, they don't care how illegal.
These are *not* chains.
PetCo, though, has my special disdain - I've seen hamsters cannibalizing each other, a dead goldrim tang that Corporate HQ mandates that each store carry, in spite of the protests of the (few) knowledgable fishkeepers there.
Every legitimate fish keeper that works at PetCo is disgusted, fed up, makes too many waves, and either gets fired or quits.
Complaining isn't enough. This company is evil and must be destroyed.
True, there have been countless evil despots perpetrating sinister genocide on innocents. That doesn't mean Hitler wasn't one of the worst nor worthy of everyone sacrificing their lives to stop.
No one is defending PetCo. Seems this corporation has no friends in the hobby, at least among the educated here.
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