System Stability

[loismustdie]

I believe a key to success in this hobby is system stability. Maintaining your parameters with the smallest possible swing. The easy one is the old heater with the built in thermostat. A step up would be a temperature controller. But that's just on parameter. Wild reefs are extremely stable environments. There are 2 things that would really help improve members tanks.
Auto top off and automatic dosing.
Most members dump in the bulk of their top off in one shot during the day. Most of us on average, go through 1 to 2 GPD. This is a swing in salinity that our coral wouldn't see in an entire year on a reef. Although small, these changes stress the coral and slow growth, effect color, etc. An automatic top off system with a float switch (and a back up) would help keep these swings smaller. I would bet the addition of an auto top off system would increase the quality of tanks by 10%.
Just like dumping gallon jugs of fresh water into our tanks isn't exactly the best, neither is pouring 100ml of 2 part solution once per day. Your calcium and alkalinity shifts will stress animals. A dosing pump which doses your 2 part solution throughout the day will provide stability. Set yourself up with at least 12-24 small doses (I do 48) rather than 1 to 3 large ones. Again, I would bet another 10% improvement.
I'm also a big fan of small frequent water changes for stability, but it is highly debatable on which is better, small frequent or large less often.
So while we see a million "bigger, better skimmer" threads and all kinds of questions about supplements, no one talks much about stability.

What are you doing for stability and if possible, provide pics to give members ideas on how they can apply these techniques. Also, any other parameters you keep in check and how.

As you guys know, my Dialyseas does my auto top off, so you don't need a pic of that.
Pic 1 :dosing pumps
Pics 2 and 3: is my undata before and after I applied stability techniques. Proof is in the pic.

 

[Dace]

Great thread as always.
i use a calcium reactor so stibility should not be affected as it drips rather slow throught the day. My deltec reactor using Rowlith- C maintains my levels perfect. As for Kalk, I top off my system with Kalk at 2 1/2 gallons a day. This reactor is setup to a Litermeter 3 which divides the 2 1/2 gallons into 150 doses. as the for the heater s in my tank, they are being controlled by a aqua logic controller.

 

[spykes]

there are many ways to achieve the same results, just i notice many people choose to not understand how important stability within an enviorment really is. What the water to the habitats within is like the air we breath to us. It has to be precise or your creatures aren't gonna thrive. people should compare to a tank that is successful.

 

[tosiek]

Sadly, the reason that you see people spending the 3k+ at times for a skimmer and nothing about systems for dosing/top off is that you can't skim water yourself, while dosing and top off you grab the bottle and pour in.

Also most dosing systems don't work that well unless you spend some serious cash on good equipment. Manually doing it vs the $$$ you spend on a system makes people just say "I can do it myself" and save cash to spend on coral/fish.

I'm pretty sure if a powerhead worked on those mechanics where you can manually do it and still have the same or close results then people would be manually doing it vs buying a powerhead. Sad but true...

The next big thing i'll be throwing my wallet at soon will be a doser/top off with a controller. I've been noticing a big difference on coral behavior when i dose/top off and when its been sitting for a few hours untouched.

 

[loismustdie]

Dave (Daceman): Pics?
Dave (Spykes): couldn't have said it better. Hopefully more people will show us their way. While there is nothing wrong with manual dosing, I sure as hell am not going to dose my 2 part in small doses 48 times per day. Stability. Small bites.
Tosiek: this is exactly why I bought this thread up. I'm not saying anyone can't be successful by dosing and toping off manually. I'm bringing it up because I feel people direct money the wrong way. Look at all the threads. They are mostly "look at this coral/fish I got today" or a tank thread that shows it start up, looking great, but then a few months later, you rarely see that tank thread again. It's easy to start up a tank and have it look good. The hard part is keeping that going. Most of our tank threads don't go past a couple of months. Ever wonder why?
I feel the skimmer is very important, but so is stability. Most tanks fail because they are simply unstable and are hit with wide swings. While I have nothing against directing money towards a skimmer and things like it, it drives me crazy to see people with bad tanks continue to dump money into LS when it could be directed better towards water quality.
Can a powerhead be used for the same result? I'm sure it can. But I'll stick to the accuracy, ease and low wattage of peristaltic pumps. Doses from peristaltic pumps does vary from pump to pump, but it is too easy to figure out the doses than to try and rig a PH off of timers.
Accurate testing and stability is what separates levels of hobbyists. Not the most expensive skimmer. When dealing with SPS, "I can look at my tank and tell what's wrong" is what the amature says. The advanced test parameters and maintain stability so corals never show any signs of stress.

 

[Nsr250NYC]

chris, i've heard the saying that morning time is the best time to dose as the ph is at the lowest point. don't know how true that is.

 

[tosiek]

I totally agree with you Lois. Great topic. Alot of the tank threads out there just list skimmer, light and maybe throw the tunze name around if they have one. I think the powerhead comment was misread or said the wrong way. sigh..:sad2:

 

[loismustdie]

Kenny, I'm finding my pH remain stable throughout the day with constant small doses. However, I agree with what you are saying. My doser gives me the option to dose Ca and Alk only at night or all day long. I go for all day long.
I've also seen the whole thing about reverse daylight on fuges. This would be a technique to maintain pH as well, but to be completely honest, I have tried this in the past and it really made no difference. I think the fuge would have to be much larger than the one I had with my total water volume for it to really make any difference.

 

[Kedd]

Stability is defiantly one of the most important factors in any system.
Consistency is the other factor people should pay attention to.
Once you done all you can to achieve a stable environment, you need to keep doing it.
Don?t change what you?re doing every time a new fad rolls through the hobby.
If you do decide to make changes to your tank, well then give it time to respond (months) before rushing to judgment.

Just my 2 cents, but great thread Chris

 

[loismustdie]

I think the powerhead comment was misread or said the wrong way. sigh..

I did mis read it. Now I get what you're saying.:biglaugh:

 

[loismustdie]

Don’t change what you’re doing every time a new fad rolls through the hobby.

lol... I'm going BB... I'm getting ESV sand... 14k bulbs... ****!!! it didn't change over night! I'm buying something else!
good point kedd. Stability and consistency.
Keep in mind, I'm pushing stability here, not products. How you do it is up to you! I'd like to see more techniques... anyone?:scratchch

 

[Tonyscoots84]

i def. do believe stability is key in this hobby... great thread chris... ive done many things different from what i have done with my 75 gallon and it def. is working and see much better growth in a short time...

 

[loismustdie]

Tony... what did you do? Pics? :fishhit:

 

[Tonyscoots84]

sorry i forgot to mention.....

1. medical dual dosing pump... (keeps alk and cal perfect)
2. ATO
3. adding chiller before the summer
4. adding a heater with a temp controller soon..
5. added much better water movement tunze 6100's with a multicontroller..
6. all lights are on there own timer and go and come on at the same time everyday..

check out my 120 gallon thread u might not be able to see a difference in growth cause theres nothing really to compare it to on the thread but i see it....

i also just recently took out the sand so that will throw me back a few weeks but the corals will get used to it...

 

[TimberTDI]

Chris,

What doser do you use?

Steven

 

[loismustdie]

Steven, I was using the aqua-medic for 2 part, which worked well after I made the modifications. I liked it and recommend them. I just switched over to the calcium pumps for the Dialyseas and let it dose for me.

 

[nyfireman3097]

This is one of the MOST overlooked areas in this hobby when people are starting out. People will tell newbies do this do that but forget about letting them know about stability. I always tell people that ask me to get a dosing pump get a ATO its so important can not stress it enough


Chris about time they came how do you like them so far ?

 

[TimberTDI]

What mods did you have to do to Aquamedic?

 

[LeslieS]

You guys have convinced me. My tank is still very beginner so I have not been dosing anything yet, but a gallon of water evaporates every day. Are there special kinds of ATO or are they all pretty much the same?

Also, my mg is low so I was going to start adding that to the tank. Can I put it in my top off water or do I need a special doser?

 

[fritz]

Stability is the first thing I mention when someone says "Wow Salt water huh, is that really harder than freshwater?"

I respond: "Well in freshwater lakes, rivers and streams the makeup of the water changes drastically all the time. It rains, there is runoff, there are WILD temperature fluctuations, sometimes it doesn't rain for weeks or months. These are all things that FW fish have adapted to deal with. The makeup of water, even living conditions in a Fresh Water body of water all all over the place. The makeup of the ocean on the other hand hasn't changed the slightest in million and millions of years. As such, salt water animals have zero ability to handle change because they've never needed to. That is what makes Salt Water Tanks difficult. You need the environment to stay at a constant all the time just like it does in the wild. Now in a body of water 7/8 the size of this planet that is relatively easy. Trying to pull that off in a 55 gallon closed system with animals producing waste constantly, that can get difficult."

To me that is the first (maybe only) rule of reef keeping. You don't need to spend a fortune to keep your tank stable but you do need to keep it stable if you want it to really thrive.

I'll dig in the crates and edit this later with some pics but I used a dual float switch ATO that clips onto my sump. I use a 5 gallon AGA tank as my ATO reservoir. Once a week or so I'd make up 5 gallons of RO/DI and pour it into my reservoir. The whole setup cost me around $50. I later started adding Alk to the RO/DI because my calcium was always high in my tank and there was an Alk sink somewhere.

I never have dosed Mg I believe instead in frequent water changes to make sure that my Mg is on point. I test every now and again just in case I get a batch of salt with a Mg problem.