Does anybody else find it funny how an entire industry has been made off of a $10 pond product? Are beckett injectors really that much of a marvel? I mean, what if suddenly Beckett stopped selling their injectors? Oh well, pond hobbyists will have to turn to a different brand for their fountains, no big deal. But suddenly, no more HSA, Bullets, Myreefs, Aerofoamers..! I don't understand why, when companies supposedly spend a great deal trying to tweak and perfect their skimmers, they turn to a common pond product to be the heart of their design! Sure, Becketts do work very well, but if someone wants to take their skimmers to the next level, isn't it a simple matter to just redesign the injector? In today's market, where everything from bubble size to contact time are taken in account, and where people will deal out hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a high-performance skimmer, it just seems like it's a 'patch-job' to be relying on a Beckett.
The fame of the Beckett injector
- Thread starter samurai9
- Start date
Um, I believe the beckett injector that many people use on their HSA skimmers HAS been optimized for air entrainment. That's the whole idea behind using a beckett in a pond...to maximize aeration of the water pumped thru the injector. There's a LOT of engineering that's already gone into making this product and someone thought outside the box and decided to use this injector on a skimmer. FWIW, beckett's aren't necessarily the end-all-be-all of skimmer air injectors. There are many ways of accomplishing this besides using a beckett...
I personally think beckett skimmers are over-rated as being the 'best' out there.
Shane
'liquid' on #reefs
Shane
'liquid' on #reefs
samurai,
I don't meant this in any smart alec way, but consider the following:
Iwaki pumps were designed for the chemical industry.
Mazzai Venturi's were designed for industrial fluid/gas mixing.
Protien skimmers/Foam fractionators themselves were widely applied for commercial use to sewerage treatment long before we got ahold of them.
Both common forms of "Kalkwasser" have been used one as pickling lime (CaOH) and the other as portland cement (CaO) for alot longer than we have been keeping reefs.
The examples could go on and on, but suffice it to say that many devices and products we use were engineered for non-aquarium applications, but happen to work well for us too.
I personally like beckett based skimmers (having run needle wheel, downdraft and venturi models). Most venturis are designed to be easy to control not maximum gas entrainment. The beckett is designed for max gas entrainment.
Adam
I don't meant this in any smart alec way, but consider the following:
Iwaki pumps were designed for the chemical industry.
Mazzai Venturi's were designed for industrial fluid/gas mixing.
Protien skimmers/Foam fractionators themselves were widely applied for commercial use to sewerage treatment long before we got ahold of them.
Both common forms of "Kalkwasser" have been used one as pickling lime (CaOH) and the other as portland cement (CaO) for alot longer than we have been keeping reefs.
The examples could go on and on, but suffice it to say that many devices and products we use were engineered for non-aquarium applications, but happen to work well for us too.
I personally like beckett based skimmers (having run needle wheel, downdraft and venturi models). Most venturis are designed to be easy to control not maximum gas entrainment. The beckett is designed for max gas entrainment.
Adam
Leave it to Jeremy to give me crap.
What I'm trying to say is that I hear a LOT of people swear by becketts being superior when in actuality there's always more than one way to skin a cat. Many people are just as happy with their Euro-Reefs, AquaC's etc. Now I'm not saying becketts are bad so don't read that into my post. There's a lot of good beckett designed skimmers out there that do an excellent job.
They certainly do skim.
I'm basing my opinion on the volume of air per unit of energy input into the skimmer for my claim of them being 'over rated'. Becketts certainly do a great job but they also use a fair amount of energy at the same time. Many of the pumps that run becketts need a pressure rated pump or a pump that puts out a high GPH and all of the pressure rated pumps and high GPH pumps I've looked at on Champion Lighting's website are +100 watts to run the pump:
http://www.championlighting.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?page=Products/Pumps/specs.html&cart_id=8205440.20697
Look at any of the Iwaki's, GRI's, Little Giant's, etc and look at the wattages there. A person could build/buy a counter current skimmer and run it with a Medo air pump ( http://www.medousa.com/pdf/linear.htm )and inject anywhere from 1-3 CFM (7.5 to 22.5 gpm) of air into the reaction chamber with less energy consumption compared to a beckett driven skimmer with the same air usage. Or they could use an oil-less air compressor with a reservoir and with the duty cycle they might become even more energy efficient. Dunno. I haven't run the numbers on that scenario as I don't have an air compressor for my garage.
Another plus w/ the counter current air stone driven skimmers is you can independently control both air flow into the skimmer and water flow thru the skimmer in case you want to increase or decrease skimming. It allows you to tweak things easier in my book.
I guess what I'd like to see is some data on actually how much air a beckett injector will input into a system for various pumps. I find it hard to believe that a beckett could suck in anywhere from 450 - 1350 gph with less energy input than using an air pump/compressor and a series of airstones. That's all I'm saying.
Yep, you would have to change airstones every month or so, but it's more energy efficient. That's my point w/ this post I guess.
FWIW, when I upgrade to my next system I'm planning on implementing a 4" diameter DIY 5' counter current airstone driven skimmer into the design. I picked up two Medo 502 air pumps on EBay for $20 each (including shipping). Heck, I might prove myself wrong w/ doing this but I've got the skimmer in the basement already.
I'll find out I guess.
Shane
'liquid' on #reefs
What I'm trying to say is that I hear a LOT of people swear by becketts being superior when in actuality there's always more than one way to skin a cat. Many people are just as happy with their Euro-Reefs, AquaC's etc. Now I'm not saying becketts are bad so don't read that into my post. There's a lot of good beckett designed skimmers out there that do an excellent job.
I'm basing my opinion on the volume of air per unit of energy input into the skimmer for my claim of them being 'over rated'. Becketts certainly do a great job but they also use a fair amount of energy at the same time. Many of the pumps that run becketts need a pressure rated pump or a pump that puts out a high GPH and all of the pressure rated pumps and high GPH pumps I've looked at on Champion Lighting's website are +100 watts to run the pump:
http://www.championlighting.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?page=Products/Pumps/specs.html&cart_id=8205440.20697
Look at any of the Iwaki's, GRI's, Little Giant's, etc and look at the wattages there. A person could build/buy a counter current skimmer and run it with a Medo air pump ( http://www.medousa.com/pdf/linear.htm )and inject anywhere from 1-3 CFM (7.5 to 22.5 gpm) of air into the reaction chamber with less energy consumption compared to a beckett driven skimmer with the same air usage. Or they could use an oil-less air compressor with a reservoir and with the duty cycle they might become even more energy efficient. Dunno. I haven't run the numbers on that scenario as I don't have an air compressor for my garage.
I guess what I'd like to see is some data on actually how much air a beckett injector will input into a system for various pumps. I find it hard to believe that a beckett could suck in anywhere from 450 - 1350 gph with less energy input than using an air pump/compressor and a series of airstones. That's all I'm saying.
FWIW, when I upgrade to my next system I'm planning on implementing a 4" diameter DIY 5' counter current airstone driven skimmer into the design. I picked up two Medo 502 air pumps on EBay for $20 each (including shipping). Heck, I might prove myself wrong w/ doing this but I've got the skimmer in the basement already.
Shane
'liquid' on #reefs
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> Hey shane,
Alot of people's wives won't let them put 5' tall skimmers in their living room.. <hr></blockquote>
hehehe, then it's time to look into getting a new wife ;-)
(Don't tell mine I said that ;-)
- Mac
Alot of people's wives won't let them put 5' tall skimmers in their living room.. <hr></blockquote>
hehehe, then it's time to look into getting a new wife ;-)
(Don't tell mine I said that ;-)
- Mac
I believe that with all the money being made by skimmer manufacturers using borrowed technology,(beckett, mazzai)They could invest some into designing an injector/venturi, as or more efficient for this hobby than what was designed for something else
There aren't ebough reefers to support the research of these products, so like everything we DIY, we steal from what has already been designed then we McGyver it to work better. hahaha
Liduid, You web link is not working...not sure if you knew that.
HARRISON
Liduid, You web link is not working...not sure if you knew that.
HARRISON
Hi:
I remember back a few yrs or so. May have been mid to early 90's when chris paris was doing his Ph.D. dissertation on waste removal(foam fractionation) and he as part of his research looked at more efficent air injection system which would give a > more air/unit of energy return and he assessed a number of pond aerators as well as firehose aerators, etc. I believe he was one of the first to suggest this pond injector be used for foam fractionation, he also identifed an eductor injector which is now being used by tetra on their new eductor skimmer.
MTC has been first credited w/ placing the beckett in a controllable containment system and actually making a home skimmer out of it.
IMO Shaneos right on the money, becketts are great air injectors but w/ the horse power requird to make them work effiently compensates for their utility. Maybe these aspriating skimmers are the most effective on a per unit energy basis.
my pinion
frank
I remember back a few yrs or so. May have been mid to early 90's when chris paris was doing his Ph.D. dissertation on waste removal(foam fractionation) and he as part of his research looked at more efficent air injection system which would give a > more air/unit of energy return and he assessed a number of pond aerators as well as firehose aerators, etc. I believe he was one of the first to suggest this pond injector be used for foam fractionation, he also identifed an eductor injector which is now being used by tetra on their new eductor skimmer.
MTC has been first credited w/ placing the beckett in a controllable containment system and actually making a home skimmer out of it.
IMO Shaneos right on the money, becketts are great air injectors but w/ the horse power requird to make them work effiently compensates for their utility. Maybe these aspriating skimmers are the most effective on a per unit energy basis.
my pinion
frank
Has anyone used a Beckett injector as a modification on a venturi skimmer. I have a large venturi skimmer powered by a Quiet One pump that is always getting the air intake clogged with salt crusties. I'm wondering if a modified Beckett would be more reliable and efficient. My skimmer is made by Marine Technical Concepts, model PowerPro A. Any thoughts?
TIA
-todd
TIA
-todd
I was just thinking about that when I came across this post.I've alway believed in not putting all your eggs in one basket. This is Not a plug on my beckett skimmer, the Typhoon, but just look how much crap I got showing a skimmer on reef central! Before I sold unit ONE, they gave me so much harassment because a friend stuck a shiny lable on it. Forget about giving the guy a chance to show his stuff.Is this the American way? LEMMINGS....? Someone says this one is good and everyone buys it. I say show me then I'll decide!
My point is if someone came up with a new,better, hotter, cheaper beckett valve, that vaporized salt water at 200 psi. and absolutely purified the tank water, this person would get hate mail. Why...it shouldn't be that way.
So this post bring out a very GOOD POINT!
My point is if someone came up with a new,better, hotter, cheaper beckett valve, that vaporized salt water at 200 psi. and absolutely purified the tank water, this person would get hate mail. Why...it shouldn't be that way.
So this post bring out a very GOOD POINT!
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