Cyano Survey
- Thread starter Dan_P
- Start date
- Location
- Dingmans ferry PA
1- no3 .05 salifert
2 po4 .06 Hanna
3 temp which is a major part of cyano 77.5 to 78
I have very little but it was my fault for using to much reef roids which I stopped using and cyano is almost gone. If you don't test especially Alk which I test once a day you are looking for trouble down the road. I would rather buy test kits that will last several months then to buy all new corals when/if things start to go south because I was to lazy to spend 15 minutes per week and 100 dollars every 4 months. Cyano is a bacteria and no matter if your parameters all all in range it will appear if you don't find the issues. This bacteria is millions of years old and it's a bit smarter then a lot of us lol. Some say it was the first life form to appear on earth. For those of you that like to push out your chest and boast that you don't test it is a big thing in this hobby and not a great thing to be proud of. JMO
2 po4 .06 Hanna
3 temp which is a major part of cyano 77.5 to 78
I have very little but it was my fault for using to much reef roids which I stopped using and cyano is almost gone. If you don't test especially Alk which I test once a day you are looking for trouble down the road. I would rather buy test kits that will last several months then to buy all new corals when/if things start to go south because I was to lazy to spend 15 minutes per week and 100 dollars every 4 months. Cyano is a bacteria and no matter if your parameters all all in range it will appear if you don't find the issues. This bacteria is millions of years old and it's a bit smarter then a lot of us lol. Some say it was the first life form to appear on earth. For those of you that like to push out your chest and boast that you don't test it is a big thing in this hobby and not a great thing to be proud of. JMO
1 & 2 I only test when I see something off. Such as cyano or excessive algae growth.
My tank was recently upgraded but everything just moved over.
I have normal glass algae growth and nothing abnormal.
Not an expert but after years here is what I do to keep simple.
Keep your nitrates and phosphates down or in check by either natural means, dosing or mechanical filtration. Feed depending on your setup. Wash your food in rodi if frozen and needed, exception such as rods food. Keep up with husbandry and you will have higher chance of success.
Cyano is pretty much proven your parameters are out of whack or don't have enough filtration to handle what's going in.
Sorry to be long winded. I hope some pulls a new theory to stop annoying cyano!! Red slime remover has worked for me in the past. It normally happened to me in a tank a few months in and before changing out my filters.
My tank was recently upgraded but everything just moved over.
I have normal glass algae growth and nothing abnormal.
Not an expert but after years here is what I do to keep simple.
Keep your nitrates and phosphates down or in check by either natural means, dosing or mechanical filtration. Feed depending on your setup. Wash your food in rodi if frozen and needed, exception such as rods food. Keep up with husbandry and you will have higher chance of success.
Cyano is pretty much proven your parameters are out of whack or don't have enough filtration to handle what's going in.
Sorry to be long winded. I hope some pulls a new theory to stop annoying cyano!! Red slime remover has worked for me in the past. It normally happened to me in a tank a few months in and before changing out my filters.
- Location
- staten island,ny
1-20
2-10
3- upgrade 1 year 93 to 180 gal 1 month
4-none
2-10
3- upgrade 1 year 93 to 180 gal 1 month
4-none
- Location
- Orange county
1) i don't test
2) i don't test
3) 2.0 months
4) chemiclean and water change
2) i don't test
3) 2.0 months
4) chemiclean and water change
- Location
- Connecticut
Please, We Need More Participation In The Survey.
Thanks to the members who took the survey.
A preliminary look at the data is encouraging. There are hints of interesting trends and possible support for some of the hypotheses we have previously stated for why cyanobacteria blooms happen.
But, we need more contributions to turn these hints of interesting trends into something we can use to guide our future decisions about controlling cyanobacteria blooms, or if you already have it controlled, then passing on our wisdom to new reefers.
If you haven't taken the survey yet, please do. It is only four pieces of data. If you are not comfortable publicizing your information, please PM me.
Next week I will publish a report assuming we can double the amount of survey participants or I will come soliciting and begging for more data
Thanks!
Dan
- Location
- Brooklyn
1- Have never tested
2- have never tested
3- about a year and half old
4- haven't dealt with it in this tank ever (hopefully it stays that way)
2- have never tested
3- about a year and half old
4- haven't dealt with it in this tank ever (hopefully it stays that way)
- Location
- Connecticut
This is the first interim report on the Cyano Survey. More data is still needed to be able to reach solid conclusions but we have enough to mull over. Thanks to all of the forum members who contributed data. Please encourage and remind your friends to contribute either through the Cyano Survey in the General Discussion forum or a PM to me. Periodically, I will send out a plea for more data contributions.
Our interim data set consists of 28 contributions of current aquarium nitrate and phosphate levels, age of the aquarium and a description of how vigorously red slime (cyanobacteria) is growing. This last piece of data is a bit fuzzy. Three aquarium age groups are defined to help analyze the interim data set: developing (0-1 year), new (1-2 years), and established (2-50 years). The three tables below summarize the quantitative data collected for each aquarium age group: the average age (top most table), the percent of respondents who test (middle table), and the average nitrate and phosphate levels (bottom table). The bar graph below the tables shows the distribution of aquarium ages.
While there isn't enough data yet for solid conclusions, there are some interesting points. First, based on the bar chart, our aquariums are on the young side. Second, the number of aquarists testing phosphates is lower than for nitrates (middle table). Yet, in the scientific literature both nitrates and phosphates are important predictors of cyanobacteria blooms with phosphate levels possibly being the better predictor. Why the lack of enthusiasm for knowledge about critical nutrient levels? And finally, I went into this survey betting that the older aquariums would be virtually nitrate and phosphte free. Even assuming that our test results are not very accurate (bottom table), these results are surprising even taking into account our small data set. The report continues under the bar chart.
There is probably no arguement about cyanobacteria growth being associated with high nutrient levels or that younger aquariums are more prone to cyanobacteria growth. Again, our data set is too small to confirm these notions, but there are hints or whiffs of trends. This data is located in the tables below and are sorted by the three age groups defined above. The first table shows the range of cyanobacteria growth rate in each age group. No one will be surprised to see that most of the "established" and "new" tanks with little or no cyanobacteria growth. What might be surprising is that the relatively high nitrate levels for these tanks (second table below). Given the small data set, however, we aren't justified in claiming a discovery just yet. It is interesting all the same.
Cyanobacteria growth trends with respect to phosphate levels also seemingly do not support our prediction that beyond a certain level of phosphate cyanobacteria will bloom (third table). For "developing" aquariums it might be a good prediction but for "established" tanks the prediction situation might not be correct as often. But don't go renegade and stop worrying about phosphates. We need more data to clarify what these trends mean. A possible predictor of cyanobacteria growth is a lower nitrate to phosphate ratio (bottom most table). Suggested in the cyanobacteria scientific literature as a possible prediction tool for blooms in natural habitats, it might also be useful for aquariums. Time and more data will tell. The report concludes under the tables.
This is about as far as I dare go with the analysis of our data, but it has opened my eyes to the complexity of the aquarium microbiome. Bacteria and algae colonies probably don't turn on and turn off at certain levels of nutrients. A recent microscopic examination of a flourishing red slime and then its retreat in my aquarium is not simply a living bacteria mat followed by dying one. Complex population transitions seem to be going on instead. Is the situation better described as cyanobacteria being out competed or the population being rebalanced? If I can collect enough good photographs, I will post a thread on this study.
Please keep your data coming. I'll send out reminders every so often and who knows, I may start pestering everyone for red slime samples (I'll pay the postage).
Dan
Our interim data set consists of 28 contributions of current aquarium nitrate and phosphate levels, age of the aquarium and a description of how vigorously red slime (cyanobacteria) is growing. This last piece of data is a bit fuzzy. Three aquarium age groups are defined to help analyze the interim data set: developing (0-1 year), new (1-2 years), and established (2-50 years). The three tables below summarize the quantitative data collected for each aquarium age group: the average age (top most table), the percent of respondents who test (middle table), and the average nitrate and phosphate levels (bottom table). The bar graph below the tables shows the distribution of aquarium ages.
While there isn't enough data yet for solid conclusions, there are some interesting points. First, based on the bar chart, our aquariums are on the young side. Second, the number of aquarists testing phosphates is lower than for nitrates (middle table). Yet, in the scientific literature both nitrates and phosphates are important predictors of cyanobacteria blooms with phosphate levels possibly being the better predictor. Why the lack of enthusiasm for knowledge about critical nutrient levels? And finally, I went into this survey betting that the older aquariums would be virtually nitrate and phosphte free. Even assuming that our test results are not very accurate (bottom table), these results are surprising even taking into account our small data set. The report continues under the bar chart.
There is probably no arguement about cyanobacteria growth being associated with high nutrient levels or that younger aquariums are more prone to cyanobacteria growth. Again, our data set is too small to confirm these notions, but there are hints or whiffs of trends. This data is located in the tables below and are sorted by the three age groups defined above. The first table shows the range of cyanobacteria growth rate in each age group. No one will be surprised to see that most of the "established" and "new" tanks with little or no cyanobacteria growth. What might be surprising is that the relatively high nitrate levels for these tanks (second table below). Given the small data set, however, we aren't justified in claiming a discovery just yet. It is interesting all the same.
Cyanobacteria growth trends with respect to phosphate levels also seemingly do not support our prediction that beyond a certain level of phosphate cyanobacteria will bloom (third table). For "developing" aquariums it might be a good prediction but for "established" tanks the prediction situation might not be correct as often. But don't go renegade and stop worrying about phosphates. We need more data to clarify what these trends mean. A possible predictor of cyanobacteria growth is a lower nitrate to phosphate ratio (bottom most table). Suggested in the cyanobacteria scientific literature as a possible prediction tool for blooms in natural habitats, it might also be useful for aquariums. Time and more data will tell. The report concludes under the tables.
This is about as far as I dare go with the analysis of our data, but it has opened my eyes to the complexity of the aquarium microbiome. Bacteria and algae colonies probably don't turn on and turn off at certain levels of nutrients. A recent microscopic examination of a flourishing red slime and then its retreat in my aquarium is not simply a living bacteria mat followed by dying one. Complex population transitions seem to be going on instead. Is the situation better described as cyanobacteria being out competed or the population being rebalanced? If I can collect enough good photographs, I will post a thread on this study.
Please keep your data coming. I'll send out reminders every so often and who knows, I may start pestering everyone for red slime samples (I'll pay the postage).
Dan
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