Dosing & levels?

[Awibrandy]

I had to begin dosing in November of 2011. Prior to that weekly water changes were enough.
I do not dose anything I can't test for.
My issue is that since I started dosing, I am getting a bit confused. I have been testing every morning, and adjusting how much of each mag, alk, cal to dose. I am aiming for 1350 mag, 8.8 alk, 450 cal, but the numbers keep going just a little up or down off the desired values.
For instance:
Day 1) mag 1290, alk 6.7dkh, cal 400 after dosing 3.5oz of magnesium only
Day 2) mag 1320, alk 8dkh, cal 400 after dosing
Day 14) mag 1300, alk 7dkh, cal 380 dosed 1.5oz of mag, 1.5oz of alk, 1.5oz of cal
Day 15) mag1380, alk 7.4dkh, cal400 dosed 1.5ozalk, 1.5oz cal
Day 16) mag 1320, alk 8.6dkh, cal 380 dosed 1oz. mag, 2oz cal
Day 17) mag 1275, alk 7.7dkh, cal 400 dosed 2oz. mag, 1oz. alk, 2.5oz cal
Day 18) mag 1235, alk 8.0dkh, cal 400 Began dosing twice daily.
1oz. mag, .5oz. alk, 1.25oz. cal
Day 19) mag 1275, alk 7.9dkh, cal 390 dosed AM 3oz. mag, .5oz alk, 1.5oz cal ~ PM 1.5oz mag, .5oz. alk, 1oz. cal
Day 20) mag 1310, alk 9.3dkh, cal 400 dosed AM 1.5oz mag, 0 alk, 1oz. cal ~ PM 45ml mag, 10ml alk, 30ml cal
Day 21) mag 1320, alk 8.5dkh, cal 385 dosed AM & PM 50ml mag, 20ml alk, 40ml cal
Day 22) This morning. 1290 mag, 9.4dkh alk, 400 cal dosed AM 60ml mag, 15ml alk, 40ml cal
I cannot for the life of me get them to stay at a constant 1350, 8.8dkh, & 450...:irked:

What am I doing wrong?

To boot, I destroyed my calcium test kit so I can't test the calcium until I get a replacement.

All the animals with the exception of my dendros who seem to be PO since the stand switch are doing fine. Dendros are only opening at night when all the lights are off. Yes, I have tried moving them to 3 different locations within the past month. Just moved them to the latest place 3 or 4 days ago.

 

[KathyC]

Perhaps you should aim for a range rather than a specific number, which really should not be a goal as it is probably not attainable.
How would you expect to know on any given day which of your corals is going to grow therfore needing to use extra alk or ca, or which fish will consume more food and produce more waste which will use up more alk?

Each of these days you test..are you doing each test twice to get the average of the tests (as is suggested). Are you sure there is not a half drop extra/less in the vial from one day to the others that might possibly give you a slightly different reading than the prior or successive day, as it is only a very small amount of water the readings are based off of.

Add to that - depending on how much ca or alk you add you may change the other parameter to a small degree.

What about topping off? Do you know whether your system just put the needed water back into the tank right before - or after - you tested? Or that the water change you did had the exact same amount of gallons put back in as you took out AND that the water you added had exactly the same parameters that you are aiming for so as not to skew your testing the following day?

The point is, what you are seeking to do may simply not be attainable to the specific numbers you are aiming for as there are so many variables that happen in a tank from day to day and even hour to hour.

Knowing how much cal/alk/mg your tank uses over a 3 day window is the most well suggested method of figuring out how much to dose a tank.

 

[Awibrandy]

Perhaps you should aim for a range rather than a specific number, which really should not be a goal as it is probably not attainable.
How would you expect to know on any given day which of your corals is going to grow therfore needing to use extra alk or ca, or which fish will consume more food and produce more waste which will use up more alk?

Each of these days you test..are you doing each test twice to get the average of the tests (as is suggested). Are you sure there is not a half drop extra/less in the vial from one day to the others that might possibly give you a slightly different reading than the prior or successive day, as it is only a very small amount of water the readings are based off of.

Add to that - depending on how much ca or alk you add you may change the other parameter to a small degree.

What about topping off? Do you know whether your system just put the needed water back into the tank right before - or after - you tested? Or that the water change you did had the exact same amount of gallons put back in as you took out AND that the water you added had exactly the same parameters that you are aiming for so as not to skew your testing the following day?

The point is, what you are seeking to do may simply not be attainable to the specific numbers you are aiming for as there are so many variables that happen in a tank from day to day and even hour to hour.

Knowing how much cal/alk/mg your tank uses over a 3 day window is the most well suggested method of figuring out how much to dose a tank.

Thanks Kat, that was what I was looking for in a reply.... The total 100%
"stability" is totally unattainable. OK, so now I just have to purchase a new calcium test kit.:smash:

 

[KathyC]

Thanks Kat, that was what I was looking for in a reply.... The total 100%
"stability" is totally unattainable. OK, so now I just have to purchase a new calcium test kit.:smash:

I did NOT say 'stability' is unattainable, I said the extremely specific parameters you are aiming for are not attainable on a daily basis due to variations.

Stability is attainable by keeping the parameters within an acceptable range, which is what I suggested.

 

[akma]

I would do a 7 day range. Check the parameters on day 1 then in 7 days test again.
Then you have to figure out how much the total is to replenish and then split that divided by 7days. That should give you a good average.

 

[Awibrandy]

I did NOT say 'stability' is unattainable, I said the extremely specific parameters you are aiming for are not attainable on a daily basis due to variations.

Stability is attainable by keeping the parameters within an acceptable range, which is what I suggested.

OK, I seem to be having problems making what I am trying to say clear. Sorry!

I didn't mean to say "stability is unattainable", I said "100%" stability is unattainable, what I am saying is actually in agreement with what you stated.
Just that to me "stability" is: it has to be right on the money each & every time all the time. Obviously that is impossible.

Did I clarify it? Or am I still talking in riddles? Not sure what is going on with my brain.

 

[mbg75]

I would do a 7 day range. Check the parameters on day 1 then in 7 days test again.
Then you have to figure out how much the total is to replenish and then split that divided by 7days. That should give you a good average.

This is the way to go.


When u TEST THEN DOSE daily, u are playing catch up.

Don't dose for a week. See what the levels drop over that period and figure your daily drop.

Another option is to top off with Kalk.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[Awibrandy]

Thanks guys/gals.

I will do as per your suggestions! I will make this morning's dose my marker for the 7 day start.

 

[jcs11236]

usually what i tell people is test all 3 before wc, and then 4 or 5 hours after wc and see where wc put levels, and then dont dose for the whole week between ur wc and retest right before wc and figure what ur consumption is. this will help to figure your daily dosage
Stole this from another member. It works for me

 

[Awibrandy]

usually what i tell people is test all 3 before wc, and then 4 or 5 hours after wc and see where wc put levels, and then dont dose for the whole week between ur wc and retest right before wc and figure what ur consumption is. this will help to figure your daily dosage
Stole this from another member. It works for me

Cool, thanks I'll add that to my little black book as well! This old brain tends to forget things.

 

[Awibrandy]

This is the way to go.


When u TEST THEN DOSE daily, u are playing catch up.

Don't dose for a week. See what the levels drop over that period and figure your daily drop.

Another option is to top off with Kalk.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

Following the above advice this is what the results were.

Last Monday, February 27, 2012 after water change I ran the following test, below are the results on that day.
Mag 1260 ppm
Alk 8.1 dkh
Cal 425 ppm
Yesterday, 7 days later Monday, March 5, 2012 prior to water change the following are the results of the following.
Mag 1260 ppm
Alk 6.7 dkh
Cal 420 ppm

So now what?lol I am inclined to dose 20 ml mag, alk, and cal daily. I use the BRS products, and yes they have their calculators. But their calculator confuses the heck out of me because of the amount I'm suppose to dose to bring the values up. For example:
To raise the mag from 1260 to 1350 I should dose 1045.1 ml; 35.3 fl oz; 209 tsp this to me seems excessive. 149.3ml daily:eek1:
To raise the alk from 6.7 to 8.1 the recommended dose is 143.9 ml; 4.8 fl oz; 28.7 tsp. 20.56ml daily
To raise the cal from 420 to 450 the recommended dose is 442.1 ml; 14.9 fl oz; 88.4 tsp. 63.16ml daily :bigeyes:

Would really appreciate any input on the above please!!

 

[jgraz]

Just a quick question. We're these tests done at the same time of day. That seems like too big of a drop off in alk.

What I did to figure my dosing was to first bring my levels up to the range I was looking for. For me that was 1350mag, 9dkh, and 425cal. Once there I started dosing 2 part at .5ml(it's a nano). Then tested after 3 days to see if I was still in my general range. Then adjusted up up or down. In my case it was up. I went to .6ml and again tested in 3 days that kept me where I wanted to be. Now I test every couple of week or so and will adjust when necessary. Make sure you always test at the same time, each time. Otherwise your tests, specifically alk may be skewed. For me I test while my wife puts my sin to bed. That is right before lights out in the tank.

 

[Awibrandy]

Just a quick question. We're these tests done at the same time of day. That seems like too big of a drop off in alk.

What I did to figure my dosing was to first bring my levels up to the range I was looking for. For me that was 1350mag, 9dkh, and 425cal. Once there I started dosing 2 part at .5ml(it's a nano). Then tested after 3 days to see if I was still in my general range. Then adjusted up up or down. In my case it was up. I went to .6ml and again tested in 3 days that kept me where I wanted to be. Now I test every couple of week or so and will adjust when necessary. Make sure you always test at the same time, each time. Otherwise your tests, specifically alk may be skewed. For me I test while my wife puts my sin to bed. That is right before lights out in the tank.

Thanks for your post!!

Yes, test are always done around the same time (mornings after lights on)

I did start out trying to get all the levels within the range I wanted them to be, but there was always one out of wack which was driving me nuts. Hence the reason for the original post.
I was then advice to do the 7 day routine. Now I'm here again, and now you are telling me to go back to the beginning of getting all the levels on point first.:tired:

So which is it people? What am I doing wrong?

 

[Awibrandy]

Just ran the test again since I did not dose yesterday after the water change.

Mag 1230
Alk 8.4 dkh
Cal 420

Magnesium dropped by 30 ppm (Instant Ocean salt measured at 1360)
Alkalinity jumped to 8.4 (Instant Ocean measured at 13.1)
Calcium stayed at 420 (Instant Ocean measured at 430)

For today I am going to start trying to raise the Magnesium only since everything else is at where they should be.

 

[duke62]

i dont care what people tell you you wont get stability dosing. i used to dose and could not get my levels where i wanted them to be everyday.one day it would be perfect next day i was to low then i was to high.since i set up my cal reactor i can test anytime of the day any day and i will be right on all the time.best piece of equipment i ever bought.if i had to chose a skimmer over a cal reactor i would get a cal reactor

 

[Awibrandy]

i dont care what people tell you you wont get stability dosing. i used to dose and could not get my levels where i wanted them to be everyday.one day it would be perfect next day i was to low then i was to high.since i set up my cal reactor i can test anytime of the day any day and i will be right on all the time.best piece of equipment i ever bought.if i had to chose a skimmer over a cal reactor i would get a cal reactor

Thanks for your response J!! I understand what you are saying, but 2 factors stop me from getting a cal reactor: The money is just not there.(yeah seems I cannot afford this hobby anymore, and should simply put "get out") The second is the stories out there of cal reactors causing crashes. Don't you also have to run C02 when you run a calcium reactor?

 

[mbg75]

Based on your numbers. Over the 7 days, your mag didn't change, and your cal dropped 5, Alk dropped 1.7

Only my opinion, but I would dose only enough for your daily drop in cal and Alk..
Looks like u use .72 cal a day and .25 Alk..
You can dose daily to cover these, then recheck in 7 days BEFORE a water change.
Your water change replenished your Alk, but causes an up and down swing between changes.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[rambler67]

i have to agree with mbg those drops are over a week and you dont need to dose that much daily. it might be easier just to run kalk in ato would keep your cal alk stable and just does to bring your mag up to were you want it.

 

[MatthewScars]

Awi, I did exactly what you were doing. I test every morning and google doc'd it. it is impossible to get a soild number. You are better off with a range. I wanted 7.5 -8 ALK 400-450 CAL and got down how i have to dose to get the closest within that without testing everyday.

 

[Awibrandy]

Thanks for your responses guys! Really do appreciate the help.

Earlier this afternoon I dosed 11oz. of magnesium solution since the mag was so low. I will see where the mag is at tomorrow afternoon. If it is still low then I will dose accordingly, if it is ok then I will just test next week Tuesday, and take it from there.
I am satisfied with the other levels.