Tank size Vs No. of fish

[Anonymous]

...
man, i've yet to see someone as relatively clueless about the loads of terrible advice and misinformation they give out as you are.

your info is not correct, incomplete at best, and is going to put anyone in the position of actually, and mistakenly, folllowing it ,in a potentially disastrous situation

i'd suggest you do some research on fish metabolism, and metabolic rates, in addition to getting a clue or three :roll:

I think we both have shared ideas. I have researched this and it is my experience setting up over a dozen Fw planted tanks in 1/2 dozen cities in the US. From my perspective you simply have not used these methods. Like I stated before, with food the first fish during the first week, that fish does die just like clockwork.

Additionally, with peaceful fish I have left the tanks alone while outta town on work numerous times for two weeks and once for three weeks and experienced no losses. So the system must be balanced out enough the fish are getting some food.

There was an old book out of print something like "the optimum aquarium" which recommended not feeding the first fish for three weeks. Plus the step by step above was from several freshwater and marine aquariums articles on the late 70's and early 80's. If any research is needed you might look up those sources.

Meanwhile, the newbie will experience exactly what I went through. There may be other ways, but I am absolutely sure these experiences are accurate and recommended by other authorities. They result in extremely low maintenance systems that are very stable and forgiving of newbie mistakes. And have been implemented by other new hobbiests over the years with the same results.

ah thanx

now i understand more clearly

so you don't independently check your 'sources' for veracity, or accuracy, and just accept them as gospel?

what if the book was WRONG??!! (as it was)


there's TONS of 'facts' from 'authorities' that are not indeed factual, and the recommendation from the out of print book you quote is one of them

one of your major problems is that you attribute cause and effect relationships based on a one time anecdotal observation

do you know what a fw fish's metabolic/energy requirements are ? how often it's best to feed them (not according to you, or someone else, but according to the fish? )etc., etc. ?

 

[Anonymous]

...
man, i've yet to see someone as relatively clueless about the loads of terrible advice and misinformation they give out as you are.

your info is not correct, incomplete at best, and is going to put anyone in the position of actually, and mistakenly, folllowing it ,in a potentially disastrous situation

i'd suggest you do some research on fish metabolism, and metabolic rates, in addition to getting a clue or three :roll:

I think we both have shared ideas. I have researched this and it is my experience setting up over a dozen Fw planted tanks in 1/2 dozen cities in the US. From my perspective you simply have not used these methods. Like I stated before, with food the first fish during the first week, that fish does die just like clockwork.

Additionally, with peaceful fish I have left the tanks alone while outta town on work numerous times for two weeks and once for three weeks and experienced no losses. So the system must be balanced out enough the fish are getting some food.

There was an old book out of print something like "the optimum aquarium" which recommended not feeding the first fish for three weeks. Plus the step by step above was from several freshwater and marine aquariums articles on the late 70's and early 80's. If any research is needed you might look up those sources.

Meanwhile, the newbie will experience exactly what I went through. There may be other ways, but I am absolutely sure these experiences are accurate and recommended by other authorities. They result in extremely low maintenance systems that are very stable and forgiving of newbie mistakes. And have been implemented by other new hobbiests over the years with the same results.

don't flatter yourself, we most likely share no ideas at all, and i would take severe offense at having any of my ideas being remotely suggested as having something in common with yours

please refrain from even considering such a silly notion

 

[fishinchick]

At the risk of being beaten with a stick by Vitz....

It appears you two do have something in common

You both agree to disagree

:lol: sorry boys, couldnt resist

 

[Anonymous]

Well I guess I am just as much an expert as you. :lol:

As I said, that formula has worked over a dozen times in six different cities with exactly the same results. I am confident any newbie following those recommendations will experience exactly what I did.

The optimum aquarium reference was from this thread: http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... m&start=20

as posted by Louey

Bought the first fish today At the recommendation of the owner of the LFS, I bought (5) crossocheilus siamensis and (1) pair of lyretail black mollies. He showed my a copy of a book that is no longer in print called The Optimum Aquarium. This book was written in Geman and then translated to Enlish. That book is where he got the information on what fish should be stocked first in a new planted tank.

The book says that those fish should not be fed for the first 14 days so that they are forced to eat the algea. Okay, I'll give that try. Of course if they start looking too thin I shall surely cave in and feed them.

I need to get a copy of that book. I couldn't find it anywhere on the net when I searched for used books.

the original Freshwater and Marine Aquarium articles were:

"Some Old (or are the new) Ideas on Aquarium Keeping" Feb 1979

"the leiden system part 2" sep 1979

"The leiden system part 3: Oct 1979

All by Robert Gasser.

Reprints are available.

Now you and the newbies can check a variety of references. Or just accept what I state as the honest sharing of my personal experiences.

Cal certainly is in this thread: http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=60020

But then he had the added advantage of personally seeing these methods in operation for the last four years.


Stuz: Don't worry. These discussions is all to typical on these boards. Each of us had our own particular means of maintaing our tanks. I hope all this has not confused you or scared you away from this board or maintaining your tank.

 

[Anonymous]

At the risk of being beaten with a stick by Vitz....

It appears you two do have something in common

You both agree to disagree

:lol: sorry boys, couldnt resist

Yep you are right. :lol:

And feel free to interrupt at any time. the constant tit for tat does wear thin on people.

thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Well I guess I am just as much an expert as you. :lol:

As I said, that formula has worked over a dozen times in six different cities with exactly the same results. I am confident any newbie following those recommendations will experience exactly what I did.

The optimum aquarium reference was from this thread: http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... m&start=20

as posted by Louey

Bought the first fish today At the recommendation of the owner of the LFS, I bought (5) crossocheilus siamensis and (1) pair of lyretail black mollies. He showed my a copy of a book that is no longer in print called The Optimum Aquarium. This book was written in Geman and then translated to Enlish. That book is where he got the information on what fish should be stocked first in a new planted tank.

The book says that those fish should not be fed for the first 14 days so that they are forced to eat the algea. Okay, I'll give that try. Of course if they start looking too thin I shall surely cave in and feed them.

I need to get a copy of that book. I couldn't find it anywhere on the net when I searched for used books.

the original Freshwater and Marine Aquarium articles were:

"Some Old (or are the new) Ideas on Aquarium Keeping" Feb 1979

"the leiden system part 2" sep 1979

"The leiden system part 3: Oct 1979

All by Robert Gasser.

Reprints are available.

Now you and the newbies can check a variety of references. Or just accept what I state as the honest sharing of my personal experiences.

Cal certainly is in this thread: http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=60020

But then he had the added advantage of personally seeing these methods in operation for the last four years.


Stuz: Don't worry. These discussions is all to typical on these boards. Each of us had our own particular means of maintaing our tanks. I hope all this has not confused you or scared you away from this board or maintaining your tank.

:roll:

yeah i'm familiar w/gasser, i'm familiar w/ leiden (the system, the city, and the museum)


i'm surprised you aren't familiar w/the fact that both fw and sw underwent a HUGE rethinking about most of the 'accepted knowledge' that was stumbling around the hobby from the late 1800'sand has yet, in some cases, to be corrected.

once again, you seem to think that getting published, or writing something, automatically makes you an 'expert', and a qualified one, at that.

please explain how starving a fish and weaking it's immune system is advisable while dealing with the added stress of acclimation


'because so-and-so said it's ok', isn't an acceptable answer

i want YOUR explanation, backed by science

otherwise your as full of hot air on this one as you are on just about everything else you've tried to pass yourself off as being knowledgable about :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

OK you don't accept my experiences, you don't accept my references.

Just to play along. starving a fish will weaken its immune system stress the fish and kill it.


For the second time:

But I am simply not starving the fish. I am simply not adding food to the tank. the fish is still eating and when not fed for the first week survives.

When food is added the fish dies on the 5th day. In every one of the 8-10 tanks I added food during that first week. In the 3-4 I did not feed the fish for the first week, they all lived.

If you don't want to believe that and you don't believe the references I presented, then that is your choice.

All I know is it works.

So as an alternative to having a tank with tap water, just replacing the water the evaporates, some light, chocked full of plants, no circulation, no filter , not even an air stone, that lasts for up to 8 years with descendants to the original two fish, what do you recommend? What is the big correction that had to be done to correct that system?

 

[Anonymous]

OK you don't accept my experiences, you don't accept my references.

Just to play along. starving a fish will weaken its immune system stress the fish and kill it.


For the second time:

But I am simply not starving the fish. I am simply not adding food to the tank. the fish is still eating and when not fed for the first week survives.

When food is added the fish dies on the 5th day. In every one of the 8-10 tanks I added food during that first week. In the 3-4 I did not feed the fish for the first week, they all lived.

If you don't want to believe that and you don't believe the references I presented, then that is your choice.

All I know is it works.

So as an alternative to having a tank with tap water, just replacing the water the evaporates, some light, chocked full of plants, no circulation, no filter , not even an air stone, that lasts for up to 8 years with descendants to the original two fish, what do you recommend? What is the big correction that had to be done to correct that system?

ah, therein lies the rub :wink:

i know that a nuclear reactor works, i can cite literature for running it from the head(ex) of chernobyl operations

doesn't mean it's a smart or correct thing to do :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

ah, therein lies the rub :wink:

i know that a nuclear reactor works, i can cite literature for running it from the head(ex) of chernobyl operations

doesn't mean it's a smart or correct thing to do :wink:

8 years continuous operation, with up to three weeks of no maintenance and no losses is an extremely smart and correct thing to do.

 

[Studz]

gulp!

/me hides before things get thrown

 

[fishfanatic2]

:lol:

 

[Anonymous]

gulp!

/me hides before things get thrown

I agree. I only hope this has not discouraged you from enjoying your system.

These little tit for tats are extremely distractive when someone is looking for pointers on how to set up a system.

My apologies.

 

[Studz]

it no problem

I know what its like to get a little heated on a forum, I myself have done it a few times before.

my tank is going really well.

I now have three plants in and I have bought some more fish.

all seem to be thiriving, well at least so far.

I bough another Cory a peppered one
five neons and a red finned shark, ok the shark may have not been the best choice as he chases the other fish quiet a bit... but erm... don't know what to say... oops?

lol

 

[Anonymous]

I am glad you tank is doing well. that's what is important in the end.

And yes I have oops a couple of times.

 

[Studz]

just a quick question about the shark, will it damage any of the other fish? or does it just scare them off?

as I thought they only attacked their species fish that looked like thier species?

 

[Anonymous]

I think they are agressive and can and will attack other fish. But I have never kept one so perhaps others can help.

Hopefully the fish will sort it all out so they all survive.

One of the side benefits of plant life is it provides hiding places and breaks up the landscape to bullies will be less so.

 

[Studz]

if he gets worse, I might have to put a divide in the tank, or get a smaller tank for just the shark :S

 

[Anonymous]

if you're refering to a 'red tail', or 'rainbow' shark- (the raibow' has all the fins orange, the redtail has just the tail colored red/orange)you may have aggression issues for as long as you have the fish...

they're highly territorial, and won't tolerate any fish even shaped like them in their 'hideouts'.


the best way to deal w/it is to increase the number of caves/hiiding spots, and provide for at least 3-4 places to hide for the shark

re-arrangeing the tank may also help


hth

 

[Studz]

right it is a rainbow shark then, I had read it on the net and in the pet store that it was a red-finned Shark.

rearrange the tank how?

I have a treasure chest, which doubles as a cave, that is where the shark mainly stays.

I have 3 plastic plants, and 3 living plants,

should I arrange the plants around the chest/cave exit hole? or what,

thanks for your help

 

[Studz]

here is a photo of the tank as it is now:

(ignore the rusty stand, lol, its very old )
pitty most the fish ran (swam even) off as I took this.