Tank size Vs No. of fish

[Studz]

Hi,

I have a 58gallon tank (about 13ltr [I think])

I have currently only got three plastic plants, and a treasure chest in the tank (very cheesy I know )

The fish I currently have are:


¤ X-ray tetra x5
¤ CoryDora Cat (bronze) x 1
¤ CoryDora Cat (albino) x 1


so for those who maths is bad :lol: thats only 7 fish.


How many fish is an ideal number? I'm new to keeping fish, so only want easy to look after fish to start with, as would be obvious.

my parents used to keep fish when they were younger and I have consulted them about this, but it has been many moons since they kept them now so they aren't sure.

I know I don't want to keep guppys either as they can breed like wild fire (or so I'm told), wo what would be a good choice for the next addition to my tank?

sorry for all the newbie questions, but I'm looking to keep this hobby going and advance onto something more adventurous in a few years time, as I know keeping fish is a skill.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually you have to include the size of the fish as well.

IMO you can support a much heavier fish load by using planted tank methods. For instance, I have around 20-30 guppies and 5-6 platties in a 10g tank that is crammed full of live growing plants.

So a lot depends on how the tank is setup, maintained, and what kind of fish are in there.

This thread shows a planted tank:

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=60020

 

[Studz]

lol 20-30 guppies, the precise

After looking at those tanks, is a lot of plantlife like that really needed? or can I get away with having a few plants?

as for sizes of fish, being new to this, size doesn't really matter much as for what fish I'd like to keep, except when looking at their adult size in comparison.

I would like some bigger fish to the tetra as they only grow to about 5cm, as for the Doras they grow to 3.5inch, right?

so I just need some guidance.

 

[Anonymous]

lol 20-30 guppies, the precise

After looking at those tanks, is a lot of plantlife like that really needed? or can I get away with having a few plants?

You can have fewer plants but you will also not be able to support as many fish. Having that level of plants rapidily establishes the system, gets ahenad and stays ahead of the ugle algaes. And makes the system extremely easy to maintain. In FW I have no filtration, no circulation (not even an air stone), no water changes, just feed the fish and replace the water the evaporates.

as for sizes of fish, being new to this, size doesn't really matter much as for what fish I'd like to keep, except when looking at their adult size in comparison.

I would like some bigger fish to the tetra as they only grow to about 5cm, as for the Doras they grow to 3.5inch, right?

so I just need some guidance.

Actually, I can't help you with those particular fish. Perhaps others can. I have heard some rules of thumb like so many inches of fish per gallon of water. that is just an attempt to include the size of the fish as well as the number.

 

[Studz]

In FW I have no filtration, no circulation (not even an air stone), no water changes, just feed the fish and replace the water the evaporates.

hrm thats interesting, what about the 'dirt' which builds up on the bottom of the tank, from the fish? what do you have to clean that?

maybe I'll look into buying a load of plants as well, seeing my tank is not too small at least, but looking around the site, by no means big lol.

as for putting plants into the tank, do you need so much gravel or subtrate? or will they stay in the pots?

/me feels such a noob... lol

 

[Anonymous]

In FW I have no filtration, no circulation (not even an air stone), no water changes, just feed the fish and replace the water the evaporates.

hrm thats interesting, what about the 'dirt' which builds up on the bottom of the tank, from the fish? what do you have to clean that?

Yes there is a build up of a mulm at the bottom. Which is doesn't hurt anything other than possibly your eyes when you look at it. You can take that out or leave it in. My tanks seem to not know any difference.

maybe I'll look into buying a load of plants as well, seeing my tank is not too small at least, but looking around the site, by no means big lol.

as for putting plants into the tank, do you need so much gravel or subtrate? or will they stay in the pots?

I like using sand. any sand except calcium carbonate reef type sand. I use about 2-3". If the pots have slots in them, I have just simply put the pots in the sand. But usually I just plant the plants directly in the sand.

/me feels such a noob... lol

I was too. even had a air powered plastic mill in my first tank and colored gravel. Air powered filter, did water changes etc etc etc. Fish would live for about 3-4 months and the few plants I tried never took hold. then I read an article in the feb 1979 issure of Freshwater and marine aquariums by Robert Gasser titled "Some New (or are the new?) thoughts on aquarium keeping". Although skeptical I tried the methods and 8 years later I had the same aquarium with descendants from the original two fish I established the system with.

Planted tanks can be very high tech also with co2 injectors and the like. But this simple system has worked for me in many different cities, with different fish, and usually for 3-5 years of operation. So I know that first system was not luck or high quality tap water in one location. It just works.

 

[Studz]

/me wipes tear from his eye

well looks like I need some more gravel or sand as I don't have it anywhere near that thick. Roll on pay day...

I gather it is ok to put new gravel into an established tank, while the fish are still in there? well I suppose I should take them out while I do it

/me writes a list of what I need to buy on pay day...

so far another bag of gravel or sand and some plants, maybe a few more fish. at least another two Croy as have read I should keep them in 4s and only have 2.

I'm so glad I found this forum... lol with out it i'd be stuck.

and to think I bought this tank to put Triops in, and expensive investment, but its worth it, fish are much better

 

[Anonymous]

You might want to reread the thread I posted above. Cal's tank was in much worse shape and we did add new sand and plants to get it established.

Don't spend too much on the sand. Home depot play sand is like $3 for 50 pounds. And it works just fine.

You may want to check some on line aquatic plant places like www.aquariumplants.com. And give them a call. they will have a much larger selection and can advise you on your particular plants and fish you want to keep.

I would recommend anacharis to help rapidily get the system started. But stay away from Cabomba. Anacharis does become weedy but in the meantime the slower growing potted type have expanded. So after a little while you will probably want to remove the anachris but the others will be big enough to take over.

Please remember that system examplifies the less is better idea. The more you want to mess with the tank, the more you can screw things up. So resist the temptation to correct any little preceived things wrong with your tank.

Finally remember what Robert Gasser said all those years ago.

Take care of the plant life and the plant life will take care of your tank.

(and keep us posted)

 

[Anonymous]

oh and sorry not familiar with triops.

 

[Studz]

I will try to an update of how the tank is coming along, I'll start a post in the members once I get the tank properly established.

thanks for your help.

 

[Studz]

Ah triops are a shrimp, which have been around for about 350millions years. very cool looking creatures, take a look here Triop Site

 

[Anonymous]

the really excellent general rule of thumb is:

when dealing with fish the size of typical stanfdard FW community fish like tetras/livebearers, one inch of fish (running length) to one gallon of water


OR the equivalent in body mass-in other words, a pearl gourami is equal in body mass(visual approximation is good enough) to about 5 mollies, so only 2 would fit

this is a general beginner's guideline only

while the load level can be ridiculously stretched, as per beaslebob's highly questionable as usual advice suggests, i wouoldn't advise you stray from this formula until you understand the different why's as to a fish taking up less or more, than average bioload in proportion to its size

(like a gourami being an anabantid, and therefore placing less overall demand on the system, per inch, than a tiger barb (very active fish)

sand size can be important, contrary to what beasle would have you believe-some plants' root systems will choke and rot in fine sand


contrary to what beasle would also have you believe-pplants are not the universal garbage processor-there are many many pollutants in both FW and SW that plants just don't deal with-they are not a magic fix,cure,or establisher of tanks

but then everyone w/a computer thinks they're an expert if they can quote someone else's 'knowledge' taken out of context :wink:

 

[Studz]

lol!

I think thats handbags at dawn there between you two

thanks again

 

[Anonymous]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

actually that is a valid point. I was extremely surprised that many fish survived in my little 10g. One very important key is to take things slowly.
They were not all dumped into the tank full sized and all at once. Instead they were babies of the original three guppies. I never expected more that 15 to survive longer than a few months. But 4-5 months later they were mostly still there.

when I establish these tank I start with a single male after the tank has been setup for a week. And don't add food for a week. then only feed a single flake per day. At that point I add a female and continue feeding very lightly. In a couple of months I usuallyhave a dozen or so babies which grow up in the tank. So the bioload is built up slowly andtheplants have a chance to keep up with the expanding bioload.

 

[Anonymous]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

actually that is a valid point. I was extremely surprised that many fish survived in my little 10g. One very important key is to take things slowly.
They were not all dumped into the tank full sized and all at once. Instead they were babies of the original three guppies. I never expected more that 15 to survive longer than a few months. But 4-5 months later they were mostly still there.

when I establish these tank I start with a single male after the tank has been setup for a week. And don't add food for a week. then only feed a singleflake per week. At that point I add a female and continue feeding very lightly. In a couple of months I usuallyhave a dozen or so babies which grow up in the tank. So the bioload is built up slowly andtheplants have a chance to keep up with the expanding bioload.

starving a fish to near death is not what i would consider to be a recommended shortcut, or good advice, for that matter :?

 

[Anonymous]

....

starving a fish to near death is not what i would consider to be a recommended shortcut, or good advice, for that matter :?

I do get this all the time and understand how people would feel that way. But by feeding that first fish you are actually killing it. What happened and numerous times (just like clock work), is the fish started slowing down and breathing heavy the fourth day, moving very slowly on the fifth day, and died on the sixth. The second fish to replace him always lived.

What I am recommending is not adding food. That is simply not the same thing as starving the fish. In a heavily plant tank there is some algae and lotsa life on the plants. The fish is active and actively consuming those things and cleaning the tank. So all the added food does is increase the bioload and kill the fish. Besides, almost all that added food is ignored the first couple of days anyway.

When his mate is added, they immediately start making babies, are active and show no signs of stress.

 

[Anonymous]

....

starving a fish to near death is not what i would consider to be a recommended shortcut, or good advice, for that matter :?

I do get this all the time and understand how people would feel that way. But by feeding that first fish you are actually killing it. What happened and numerous times (just like clock work), is the fish started slowing down and breathing heavy the fourth day, moving very slowly on the fifth day, and died on the sixth. The second fish to replace him always lived.

What I am recommending is not adding food. That is simply not the same thing as starving the fish. In a heavily plant tank there is some algae and lotsa life on the plants. The fish is active and actively consuming those things and cleaning the tank. So all the added food does is increase the bioload and kill the fish. Besides, almost all that added food is ignored the first couple of days anyway.

When his mate is added, they immediately start making babies, are active and show no signs of stress.

man, i've yet to see someone as relatively clueless about the loads of terrible advice and misinformation they give out as you are.

your info is not correct, incomplete at best, and is going to put anyone in the position of actually, and mistakenly, folllowing it ,in a potentially disastrous situation

i'd suggest you do some research on fish metabolism, and metabolic rates, in addition to getting a clue or three :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

...
man, i've yet to see someone as relatively clueless about the loads of terrible advice and misinformation they give out as you are.

your info is not correct, incomplete at best, and is going to put anyone in the position of actually, and mistakenly, folllowing it ,in a potentially disastrous situation

i'd suggest you do some research on fish metabolism, and metabolic rates, in addition to getting a clue or three :roll:

I think we both have shared ideas. I have researched this and it is my experience setting up over a dozen Fw planted tanks in 1/2 dozen cities in the US. From my perspective you simply have not used these methods. Like I stated before, with food the first fish during the first week, that fish does die just like clockwork.

Additionally, with peaceful fish I have left the tanks alone while outta town on work numerous times for two weeks and once for three weeks and experienced no losses. So the system must be balanced out enough the fish are getting some food.

There was an old book out of print something like "the optimum aquarium" which recommended not feeding the first fish for three weeks. Plus the step by step above was from several freshwater and marine aquariums articles on the late 70's and early 80's. If any research is needed you might look up those sources.

Meanwhile, the newbie will experience exactly what I went through. There may be other ways, but I am absolutely sure these experiences are accurate and recommended by other authorities. They result in extremely low maintenance systems that are very stable and forgiving of newbie mistakes. And have been implemented by other new hobbiests over the years with the same results.

 

[Anonymous]

...
man, i've yet to see someone as relatively clueless about the loads of terrible advice and misinformation they give out as you are.

your info is not correct, incomplete at best, and is going to put anyone in the position of actually, and mistakenly, folllowing it ,in a potentially disastrous situation

i'd suggest you do some research on fish metabolism, and metabolic rates, in addition to getting a clue or three :roll:

I think we both have shared ideas. I have researched this and it is my experience setting up over a dozen Fw planted tanks in 1/2 dozen cities in the US. From my perspective you simply have not used these methods. Like I stated before, with food the first fish during the first week, that fish does die just like clockwork.

Additionally, with peaceful fish I have left the tanks alone while outta town on work numerous times for two weeks and once for three weeks and experienced no losses. So the system must be balanced out enough the fish are getting some food.

There was an old book out of print something like "the optimum aquarium" which recommended not feeding the first fish for three weeks. Plus the step by step above was from several freshwater and marine aquariums articles on the late 70's and early 80's. If any research is needed you might look up those sources.

Meanwhile, the newbie will experience exactly what I went through. There may be other ways, but I am absolutely sure these experiences are accurate and recommended by other authorities. They result in extremely low maintenance systems that are very stable and forgiving of newbie mistakes. And have been implemented by other new hobbiests over the years with the same results.

dude, i've tried every method you have, and then some :lol: - it doesn't change the fact that your understandings, and your explanations, are incomplete, misinformed, and misleading-end of story :?

parroting other's misinformation as 'fact' is simply irresponsible-get the facts to back up every piece of advice you've spewed forth so far, then i'll listen (maybe) :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

but I am absolutely sure these experiences are accurate and recommended by other authorities

as i've stated before, anyone who has a computer can pretend to be an 'authority' :wink:

which authorities can you quote that recommend starving a fish during the acclimation process ??