Why are we paying more for Genetic Defects?

[Long-Island-Mike]

Why wont you love me.....:lol2:

 

[Raul]

The fish in my avatar was not bred in captivity like the clowns. It is actually a rare color morph that has been documented for many years now, I guess it would be the Albino of the Potters angel. As for the clowns they are what I call Rednecks from the south. Where your mother is your sister and aunt and wife all in one. They just keep breeding fish from the same parents over and over which would not happen in nature.

There is no difference. The rare color morph of that angel is the same as a Picasso or a Misbar. If it was easy to breed in captivity they would.

From what I understand clowns are outbred regularly with new specimens. You would be surprised just how many paired clowns in the wild are related. They don't swim miles to look for new reefs and many species become very localized.

That blue potters is the exact same as a misbar. They are both present in the wild yet you call one beautiful and the other a freak

 

[jaa1456]

There is no difference. The rare color morph of that angel is the same as a Picasso or a Misbar. If it was easy to breed in captivity they would.

From what I understand clowns are outbred regularly with new specimens. You would be surprised just how many paired clowns in the wild are related. They don't swim miles to look for new reefs and many species become very localized.

That blue potters is the exact same as a misbar. They are both present in the wild yet you call one beautiful and the other a freak

No the clowns do not breed regularly with their own brothers and sisters regularly, and as for the Blue potters morphs, They are more common than you think. The reason you don't see more of them is because every one of them ever seen or caught were at more extreme depths than a regular potters would be at. Any article I have found on a Blue Potters all the scientist think it has adapted the blue markings because it lives in deeper water where it is darker and the orange would stand out. The blue is a survival/camo that it evolved.

 

[jf2381]

An Albino lion is different, Pick something that is not at the top of the food chain. Where are the Albino prey that it hunts? And Male lions actually do not hunt the females do and the Male just gets to eat the catch. The lightning Maroon as I stated earlier is in an isolated area inbreeding with itself. In nature when something inbreeds to much it eventually becomes weaker and can't fight off disease and eventually has a lot of problems, like neurolgical, tumors and other things like that. Which eventually will put an end to that pocket of inbreeding.

Why is it different?

They are not born at the top of the food chain. They have to grow up. This entails surviving being killed by a rogue male. Then, hunt their own food when they are ousted by the dominant male. Then after then become strong enough during that rouge period they have to be accepted by a females in order to start their own pride and pass on the gene.
But I will give you something easier. All documented too.
Albino baboon, albino alligator, hippo snakes and the list goes on.

I know the consequences of in-breeding to that point. However, what happens if a set of fresh genes are introduced by let say clown larvae that got swept to this isolated pocket of clowns? New gene to the pool and it will be years before you see any detrimental effect.
It’s evolution. Look at the Galapagos Island. All those adaptations from the same bird specie. Another example, all the isolated islands in pacific...a bunch of species not found anywhere else in the world. What do you think it's from?

One more point to add.
I see buying these clowns as a problem is if every hobbyist that buys them start to breed brother and sister with second generation brother and sister and third generation brother and sister and so forth. Is that likely, maybe…maybe not.

 

[jf2381]

Why wont you love me.....:lol2:

ehh I don't like them.
I like mine better and do not mind what I paid for them. lol

 

[NYreefNoob]

As for the clowns they are what I call Rednecks from the south. Where your mother is your sister and aunt and wife all in one. They just keep breeding fish from the same parents over and over which would not happen in nature.

i take offense to this, as i am a Redneck.

personally out of almost all the clowns i have owned over the years i have had maybe 2 that were normal. i like the mis-bars and dont pay extra for it, guess it depends on the store, my current true percs have all normal bars but have a little different markings.
wrasse's are a good fish to use in this scenerio as alot of the wrasse's have seem to come into new morphs and i think there is more cross breeding going on in the ocean then we see, shoot my southern erectus sh was trying to mate with my kuda sh. the ocean is vast and we only see what is being brought in, around the next rock could have been another species we havent seen or a cross bred species,
potters have been tank raised, guy out of hawiia has been breeding angels for some time

 

[DHaut]

yeah this guy doesn't know what a redneck is.

 

[Raul]

No the clowns do not breed regularly with their own brothers and sisters regularly, and as for the Blue potters morphs, They are more common than you think. The reason you don't see more of them is because every one of them ever seen or caught were at more extreme depths than a regular potters would be at. Any article I have found on a Blue Potters all the scientist think it has adapted the blue markings because it lives in deeper water where it is darker and the orange would stand out. The blue is a survival/camo that it evolved.

Last I checked red/orange/yellow can not be seen in deep water. Example: Flame Wrasse..

Again you are not seeing the bigger picture. All morphs have an start off in the wild.. You are applying human logic to a very primal form of survival and evolution. Inbreeding in most animals isnt that negative. If there isnt new blood they just dont stop breeding. Over time the WEAKER animals dont breed and die but the strong ones continue to do so. How many Lionfish were released into Florida waters? 10 maybe? Look what inbreeding does. From 10 fish hundreds of thousands have thrived. Your potters angels is a great example of that. They didnt just all start turning blue. They became isolated and evolution took over. Im sure that there werent many potters that decided to go down deeper than the others at the same time. Those individuals HAD to inbreed because there werent any other fish to breed with.

Look at the Galapagos. Those islands are full of animals that were pushed there by the current or the wind and evolution turned changed them completly. How many original animals did it take for a green iguana to become a marine iguana? Not many. Nature always finds a way.

 

[Long-Island-Mike]

ehh I don't like them.
I like mine better and do not mind what I paid for them. lol

To be honest, I haven't found any fish I dont like. There are some I wouldn't put in my tank, but they are all cool in there own way.

 

[jerl77]

i think you are all crazy its the same thing as paying $300 a eye for chalice :sgrin:
:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

 

[jerl77]

but they are so cute

 

[jerl77]

here is mine:tongueani

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

... You are applying human logic to a very primal form of survival and evolution. Inbreeding in most animals isnt that negative. If there isnt new blood they just dont stop breeding. Over time the WEAKER animals dont breed and die but the strong ones continue to do so. How many Lionfish were released into Florida waters? 10 maybe? Look what inbreeding does. From 10 fish hundreds of thousands have thrived.....Those individuals HAD to inbreed because there werent any other fish to breed with.

...

Nature always finds a way.

Excellent example(assuming the lionfish issues are really started by the ~10 fish) of inbreeding does not always mean defects in survival of a species. Evolution determines who is the fittest in the long run.

Another classic example is the the snakehead at Potomac River as the source can almost be 100% sure to start from a very few individual fish and yet they are still thriving in the area even though people try to posion the whole river and drain the ponds.