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Paul B

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Awilda I think stress is one factor that either causes it or lets it happen. I recently found a gobi in a garbage can full of live rock that I just had laying around for a few weeks with no light, heat, food or circulation. I found him by accident and put him back in my tank. He has HLLE big time. I would love to be able to catch him to try out some injectable antibiotics I have.
 

KathyC

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I have both a purple and a yellow tang and have seen no indication of MHLLE on either. Both are fed as close a balanced diet as I can and I do not add any additional vitamins to my feedings. It is my understanding that both of these fish are at least 3+ years old, and hopefully they will remain healthy into the future.

My reason for posting on this thread is my experience with HLLE in FW fish, specifically my two Oscars and the Oscars of a few other folks that I have helped through HLLE.
While Steven Pro states that his article offers a differentiation between MHLLE and FW HLLE, and after reading it I can't say that I saw this to be true, nor do I think we are dealing with 2 differing conditions as we do in Marine vs FW Ich.

Like you, this disease offers special interest to me as my fish have suffered with it in the past. I'd like to offer my observations in hopes that you may see some commonality in my method of 'treatment' assuming...and that's a big assumption, that it is in fact the same disease.

My Oscars are now 7 years old and have been together in the same tank since they were 1 1/2" in size. For the most part, except when life interferes, I change between 50 and 70% of the water each week being the slobs that Oscars are... The first time I experienced HLLE was after they had reached adulthood and 'Felix' was the one who got it. There was no indication of it on 'Oscar'. Yes, they have names, sue me...lol

I read all that I could find which as you know provided me with a variety of 'cures', none with a guarantee. I purchased Heximita, though I chose not to use it after reading the packaging (fyi..ingredients: Metronidazole, Flagyl, Imidazole-1-Ethanol, 2-Methyl-5-Nitro). I had the tank and receptacles checked for stray current issues and found there were none.
Since I am a firm believer in not medicating a tank unless I am certain of what I am dealing with, I chose to 'treat' Felix with food soaked in a One -A-Day vitamin (the plain type with none of the added antioxidants), more frequent water changes (2-3 x /week) and removal of the carbon from the filter cartridges.
Within days the progress of the HLLE stopped and within 4 weeks the fish was almost entirely healed (minor scaring left behind, but that is to be expected). Keep in mind that I closely observe my fish on a daily basis and therefore hopefully catch issues before they spiral out of control.
After this bout I stopped adding the vitamins and put the carbon back into the filters. Going forward Felix did develop HLLE a couple of more times over the next year or two and I treated in the same way with the same speedy results. Again Oscar was unaffected.
Since that last bout Felix has never had HLLE again, although Oscar did develop it once. I treated it the same way once again but have not added the carbon back into that tank since and have not experienced HLLE since then.
I almost wish that I hadn't used 3 ways of treating as I don't know which might have had the biggest effect in helping or if it was a combination of the three. I am doubtful that the water changes cured the condition as those were typical in my tank. My Osacrs eat primarily a 'staple' diet with treats of krill and fresh shrimp a few times a week and they have never once been fed feeder fish. I tend to lean towards the carbon as a potential factor, but more specifically the carbon dust. I do rinse my carbon VERY thoroughly in my other FW & SW tanks for fear of this condition.
As I mentioned earlier, I have had other folks use this same method of treatment for HLLE with their Oscars, including an on-going balanced diet and they too have been successful with it.

What I find most curious is the limited number of species of fish that develop this condition..that doesn't make any sense to me. If the disease is bacterial, viral or parasitic, then our other fish, often in the same tank, should be just as likely to contract it, yet they don't.

And while I have had success in treating HLLE, I can't understand why one of my fish had it when the other didn't with both living in the same environment. Could stress be a factor, maybe...while I don't like to blame stress on every little thing regarding our fish, the fact that only certain kinds of fish develop HLLE, there might be a relationship. Oscars are not your typical fish in that they ARE clearly affected by conditions OUTSIDE of their tank. If I move the furniture in the room, paint the walls...they pout by sitting on the bottom of the tank often facing the rear wall...just maybe tangs (and the others most prone) are also sensitive to the 'outer' environment.
Might be why the fish in Pro's article that were moved outdoors regained their health..though that doesn't explain the results at AMW..
Hoping something that I wrote may help even thought I am dealing with FW fish!
 

Paul B

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Kathy, thanks for posting. This is one of those maladys that is very confusing. The only thing for sure is that wild fish don't get it. At least I have never seen it in the 300 or so hours I have been underwater. Tangs are a schooling fish and are always stressed when alone. They look fairly stressed even in the sea but no where near as much as in a tank. I once had a percula clown that developed a little of it but he was about 12 years old and it could have been caused by age.
Yellow tangs almost always have it and captive yellow tangs look very different than wild ones. You can see a school of yellow tangs from shore in shallow water because they are so brightly colored yellow. I have never seen a captive yellow tang match the color they are in the sea. My hippo tang may be cured and just scarred, I don't know but I would like to try a few things. As I said (somewhere) I have had hippo tangs for 10 years and although they had HLLE, it did not seem to get worse over time. IMO Hippo tangs are one of the most beautiful fish and I would like them, all of them to stay that way. My moorish Idol was about five and never got it and he was in the same tank with this hippo.
I know it has something to do with captivity and I will keep experimenting.
Hey Kathy did you ever put in that rock I gave you?
Have a great day.
Paul
 

Awibrandy

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Paul that is totally amazing! Weeks, and he was still alive.:Yikes: This can only occur with you.;) With me it would have been dead a minute after going in to the bucket.

Kat, I succesfully kept Oscars without the dreaded hlle for their life cycle with me over 15yrs. don't know what happened after that. I either gave them away, or they killed each other once they got to be over a foot.:( And one died when I went on vacation, and he came down with pop eye, and the person caring for him did not follow my over the phone instructions.
Any way, this was after I totally stopped feeding them live fish. And fed them Hikari cychlid food only. Guess I was just blessed.lol
 

h20 freak

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Are there any more odd cases like the yellow tang mentioned in the article? Perhaps in the Hawaiian waters there's something that isn't present in other waters( Hawaii is very secluded from any other landmass.)How are Naso tangs affected?


It was stated that perhaps not being in a school may be the problem.What about public aquariums that do have these tangs in schools?The article also mentioned that in epcot an aquarium had tangs develop HLLE, Im guessing a large aquarium like that wouldn't have a single lonely tang.


How much has electricity been looked into?It certainly doesn't exist in the wild but it does in every fish tank.


Maybe It's just something that exists in some people's homes and not in others.


Maybe, in the end, HLLE is caused by a variety of reasons, like sneezing for us. If this was the case then obviously HLLE will never have a set cure but it would help to know what are the factors that cause it.
 

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