Live Food VS Frozen....

[Awibrandy]

Deano, how do I increase bacteria, if not by increasing the fish's intake?

 

[fritz]

If you want more pods, either increase their food source(s) or reduce the predators.

You can't add more food in a safe way. Your only option is to decrease predation either by removing their predators or creating a place whereby they can live and reproduce which is free of predation.

Personally Awilda I wouldn't bother. As a side note I've only seen one definition or I should say one implementation of a fuge on MR. What would would want to add is not a swamp section but instead a place designed as a habitat for pods to reproduce and again I wouldn't bother. You likely have tons of pods in your tank you just don't see them because when they come out they get eaten. In the rocks they are there and reproducing like crazy. Create some pod piles within your rock work if you don't have any. Pile up some rubble here and there amongst your rocks. These are as good a refugium as any.

 

[Awibrandy]

Well, I guess I'll just throw a couple of pieces of egg crate in my sump. Maybe a couple pieces hiden behind the lr as well.
I guess you'd wonder why so much interest in pods.
1. I want a manderine
2. Since live food is so much better for my charges, then of course I want to make it available to them.

If there were somewhere to buy it from I'd do that.

 

[KathyC]

A - as mentioned by Fritz and Dean you do have pods in your tank, you're just not seeing them. Every now & then I catch a glimpse of swarms of mysis swimming in my rocks..even with all of the fish predators I have in there.
The pods that are in my fuge are simply in a safer environment due to no predators being in there and THEY are what seed my DT on a continual basis.
While I have a few fish (outlined earlier) that really stomp on my pod population, I also have other fish and more Wrasses in particular (like the Dusky, the Cryptic 6 line the Exquisite) that are also eating my pods up.
While I'm not happy about it, I know my phosphate are high and so are my nitrates..which does help my pod population but hurts other things...so there is a trade off involved in having the volume of pods I have.
Prior to the addition of many of my Wrasses, I could watch my pods walking all over my sand in the DT day & night..not anymore, but I know they are there.

Keep a couple of things in mind, you have a LOT of fish in your tank, a pod doesn't stand a chance in there PLUS by all standards your tank is still 'new'. All of your rock was washed (bet a bunch went down the drain..) & semi-cooked before you switched tanks, you have a new sandbed and no fuge.
What is it they suggest before adding a Mandarin to a tank..a year? It will easily take that long before have a solid enough population in there to support one..and then you'll still be dealing with the issue of the volume of fish you have that will vie with the Mandarin for the pods.
Patience my friend..and build some rock piles

 

[Awibrandy]

:bigeyes2:Hey Kat, where in there do you suggest these extra rock piles go?lol With the amount of rock & coral I have I can't think of where to put any more.

 

[KathyC]

In a net bag (like you get onions in) and drop them behind your rockwork, not near the outside edges where they will be visable & annoy you..lol
In the sump wouldn't hurt either.

 

[Slamajamajama]

wow this thread has some great info, i havent followed it since ive been away...could be a good sticky in fish forum...

 

[Dmitry]

My original 29 gallon tank, where I had crushed coral, had a lot of pods. I could see them crawling all over the substrate. With a Sixline in the tank who constantly hunted them. In my now deceased 72 tank, where I had fine sand, I had no pods. I certainly never saw them and my mandarin starved. And I dumped bottles of pods into the tank. I never cleaned the sides or the back glass.

The only thing I can think of that I was doing in my 29 but not in the 72 was feeding phyto and/or marine snow. Not sure if those helped feed the pods and increased their population. But my 72 had no pods...

 

[OctaviousMonk]

I actually have a slow flow through fuge setup beneath my 72 bowfront and I find it to be amazing. I can actually just sit and watch the gross tiny invert world that lives in it. I have an insane mysis, amphipod and copepod population both in my tank and my fuge. But first and fore most this fuge is also a filration system keeping my levels near perfect. I have within it a 4 inch sugar fine sand bed (Something i could never pull off in my main tank), LR which I swap random small pieces in and out of the display to help spread life, Cheato, about 30 nesarius snails and a few urbos as well. This tank gets strait dirty water from above, and then slowly flows right back to my return pump. It also gets 11 hours of lights from a Home depot lights of america 6500k PC flood lamp that causes crazy cheato growth. So as you can see I am big fuge advocate and would love to actually have a large inline display fuge sitting next to my main tank once room is available. Back to my point live food rocks and Refugiums are like a live food farm.

 

[jejton]

When I'm switching the current tank over I'm going to start growing baby brine again so I can be sure to have enough live food for my guys. IMO it's the best, cheapest & easiest way to assure live food for the fish and it benefits all the fish, not just the ones that are willing to pick pods off the substrate/rocks.

..and Mike, I bought the Dusky from you...lol...he just likes my tank better

Is there a cost efficient way for the average hobbyist to grow brine shrimp past the naupilii stage for those critters that prefer larger food?

 

[jejton]

I would say that whenever possible live food is the best choice hands down because it is more natural for the fish to eat and hunt also I am sure it is healthier as well. As far as cultivating the live food, that is the problem, big sumps with nice fuges is that the answer? Seeding with live food on a regular basis? I don't know but I am interested in finding out myself.

I imagine that the live foods - 'pods or otherwise - are only as nutritious as what they eat though. In the herp world, it is pretty much the standard that feeders ( usually crickets and such ) are gut loaded with nutritious foods so that they provide more than just roughage. I wonder how this plays out in the average reef tank.

 

[jejton]

My original 29 gallon tank, where I had crushed coral, had a lot of pods. I could see them crawling all over the substrate. With a Sixline in the tank who constantly hunted them. In my now deceased 72 tank, where I had fine sand, I had no pods. I certainly never saw them and my mandarin starved. And I dumped bottles of pods into the tank. I never cleaned the sides or the back glass.

The only thing I can think of that I was doing in my 29 but not in the 72 was feeding phyto and/or marine snow. Not sure if those helped feed the pods and increased their population. But my 72 had no pods...

I imagine that it's not necessarily the feeding changes but the substrate change. The crushed coral has a lot of surface area and a lot more nooks and crannies than fine sand. That is why it is such a nitrate factory if it doesnt get vacummed regularly but OTOH it also provides an environment for microfauna to live and reproduce.

 

[KathyC]

Is there a cost efficient way for the average hobbyist to grow brine shrimp past the naupilii stage for those critters that prefer larger food?

I imagine that the live foods - 'pods or otherwise - are only as nutritious as what they eat though. In the herp world, it is pretty much the standard that feeders ( usually crickets and such ) are gut loaded with nutritious foods so that they provide more than just roughage. I wonder how this plays out in the average reef tank

The point was you don't want to grow the BBS past the naupili stage as that is when they still have the egg sack attached..and that is what is so nutritious to the fish. It's much easier to continually raise BBS than trying to feed adult brine shimp so they have any value.

Can't say I know of a way to gut load a pod aside from feeding phyto a couple/few times a week thereby keeping them fat & healthy & multiplying..my Mandarins certainly seem to be thriving.