Live Food VS Frozen....

[Slamajamajama]

well, let me tell you what brought this thread on..When I was at KathyC's house and i saw the Dusky Wrasse (and he other fish as well that have some of the brightest color) that I had sold her, (or was it loan, K?...l0l...j/k) he quadrupled in size and had some awesome colors in only 3 months time...K, has given me a bunch of pods to replenish my numbers so I kno for a fact that between the other wrasses and the mandy pair, she has lots to go around....

well the question is out there...is that Dusky that much larger (and color)because of all the live food thats avail? Is there a corlition to the live food and this fish increased size? Dont focus on the Dusky but is this with all fish?

a) Live Food VS Frozen....?
and b) How can we supply more live food and a reasonable cost?

 

[jhale]

I would guess that having the freshest food available (live) would be the healthiest thing for a fish. it's like us eating frozen vegetables vs. buying them fresh. I'm not sure that analogy works with meat/protien so I could be wrong.

supplying more pods is pretty cheap and easy. set up a fuge and you've got a pod farm trade rocks with other reefers to get more kinds of pods.
growing rotifers and phyto is not that expensive, but the work required makes it less attractive.

 

[fritz]

Bah! To rotifers but you will need phyto to grow some pods. I use the spray dried stuff from ESV plus I try not to clean my glass very often. I always leave two sides of my tank just funk nasty. There are tons of pods on them then I clean them off every month or so.

 

[KathyC]

I do think that the live food makes a difference for the fish and I've been lucky in that my fuge has been very successful in keeping a large amount of pods in my tank.
I also believe that the fact that my fuge (and DT) having aragonite sand (as opposed to ESV) is helpful to the pod population. Add to that my fuge is not the cleanest looking place...I allow algae to grow on the sides and that is where I see most of the pods - as Fritz mentioned - they love this stuff. It may not look so great in pics but benefits the tank greatly from what I can see.

When I'm switching the current tank over I'm going to start growing baby brine again so I can be sure to have enough live food for my guys. IMO it's the best, cheapest & easiest way to assure live food for the fish and it benefits all the fish, not just the ones that are willing to pick pods off the substrate/rocks.

..and Mike, I bought the Dusky from you...lol...he just likes my tank better

 

[fritz]

Does he get any algae such as nori or do you ever feed NLS ? Just wondering some of my wrasses have eaten those. Chris has a christmas wrasse that goes to town on his micro star population. I wonder if you may have an abundance of some other food source that Mike didn't have in his system.

 

[KathyC]

NLS? Duh..not sure what that is..
I no longer add Nori, kinda forcing them to eat whatever existing algae is in the tank though the Dusky picks all day long (along with the Yellow Coris & Mandarins).
I have recently had a huge growth of micro stars and I hope they start eating them but I haven't seen them doing it.
Forgot to mention, I also feed the snot out of my tank..I rotate mysis, cyclopeze & Formula 1 and 2 pellets & a few days a week they get flake or the zooplankton that comes in the jar.

Mike is having diffuculty getting his pod population to grow back since he changed to the ESV sand. I've given him hundreds of pods to reseed his tank and he is finally just beginning to see a few in his filter socks (I don't use socks).

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

I would say that whenever possible live food is the best choice hands down because it is more natural for the fish to eat and hunt also I am sure it is healthier as well. As far as cultivating the live food, that is the problem, big sumps with nice fuges is that the answer? Seeding with live food on a regular basis? I don't know but I am interested in finding out myself.

 

[KathyC]

Chief, I don't seed my fuge..that's just an ongoing population that I try to take good care of by dropping in some phyto every now & then to keep them well fed too. Having the fuge area in the sump definitely makes a difference IMO.
The Baby Brine - you should only add what the fish will immediately eat as they are of zero nutritional value to your fish once they lose the egg sack. When I do go back to raising them I will have 2 or 3 small cultures going, starting them a couple of days apart each so that I have a constant supply of newly hatched BBS. Any extras I will feed to my FW tanks and drop some into my pond before they lose the egg sacks.
I'll post a pic & instructions when I restart the cultures for anyone who may not be familiar with the process

 

[sarahandkevin]

I have been waiting for my pod population to grow.... maybe it would good to push it along a little. Kathy can you hook me up? or is there some other reason they are not blooming?

 

[Deanos]

is there some other reason they are not blooming?

They will only bloom if their food source is available in sufficient quantities.

 

[Awibrandy]

They will only bloom if their food source is available in sufficient quantities.

Deanos, can you please explain a little more. I feed my animals very well, they get HOF's mysis,Rob's food,Hikari Brine, Formula 1&2(frozen cubes),cyclopeeze,Formula 1 pellets, Omega veggie flakes,ESV freeze dried phyto etc., and I still don't have any pods that I can see. I use to have a good amount of pods before the switch in February when I also switched to the ESV sand.
As I posted in another thread I can't even grow any macro. I don't have any algea what so ever, not even nuisance algea.

 

[Deanos]

Copepods

Excerpt: Copepods eat bacteria, diatoms, and other tiny, single-celled organisms in the water. Maxillae, maxillipeds and antennae push food towards the mandibles (jaws), which process the food.

Therefore, the less of this diet available, the fewer copepods you will have. I'd guess the same holds true for amphipods.

 

[fritz]

I find a good way to check my pod population is to not clean the glass on one side of the tank (left or right) for two weeks or more. That green film will build up and after a few days you'll notice lots of pods on it. I usually leave it like that until I can't stand it anymore. The back glass I always leave alone but it's hard to see anything on the back glass, the side glass is much more visible. With two sides of the tank algae covered that helps to insure that they have food to eat. I also feed the ESV spray dried phyto two or three times a week.

I can't speak for ESV sand and weather or not pods will live in it. I found tons of pods all over my sand last night and I don't have a fuge of any type. In fact, quite the opposite my sump is a death trap for pods. My drain empties into a sock and just below the sock is the intake for my skimmer. I keep my sump completely clean, no LR no algae, nothing. Between my sand bed, rocks and walls I have plenty of room for pods to grow on. It also helps that I don't have any (real) pod eaters in my tank.

 

[Awibrandy]

Let me get this straight. Are you guys saying my tank is to clean? Besides the fact that I do have lots of pod feeders, so does KathyC.

 

[Deanos]

Let me get this straight. Are you guys saying my tank is to clean? Besides the fact that I do have lots of pod feeders, so does KathyC.

What I am saying, is that nature finds a happy medium (population-wise) using available food and predation as a control on pods. If you want more pods, either increase their food source(s) or reduce the predators. You could add 'millions' of pods from different sources to your system, but they will shortly die if the food is not there to feed them.

 

[fritz]

I think Deanos said it spot on.

No your tank is not "too clean". Even the lowest nutrient tanks need to clean their glass every now and then. That green film is loved by pods as is evidenced by their gathering on it in large numbers. The problem is that if we can easily see them there, so can their predators. A six line will clean off a few hundred pods from a sheet of glass in 30 seconds so I wouldn't gauge their population in that manner if you have pod predators.

If you want a more accurate gauge try turning your actinics on tonight at 2 or 3am and closely check the sand for movement. If you have a red flashlight you can use that but I find it hard to see them unless they are large with a red light (maybe it's just me). Predators won't be up and about and the majority of your pods will be running around.

 

[Awibrandy]

OK, I will increase food, and decrease water changes.

 

[Awibrandy]

I don't get a green film on my glass, what I get is light brown.

 

[Deanos]

OK, I will increase food, and decrease water changes.

No! The food you need to increase are "bacteria, diatoms, and other tiny, single-celled organisms in the water." Don't confuse the food you are feeding your livestock with pod food. IMO, the safest way to increase pod population is to provide them with a refugium. I say "safe" in terms of the overall health of your reef. You don't want nitrates & phosphates rising just to feed your fish more live pods.

 

[drperetz]

...

Live food some much better...Wish every animal in my tank ate the same thing.
Then my water parameters would be a top notch.