oh...still have it?
FOWLR ich treatment ?
- Thread starter SethKim
- Start date
oh...still have it?
- Location
- The Big City
First, you tank, sump and skimmer maybe 500gal but your actual water volume is a lot less, as you need to take into account LR, sand, fish and equipment. As I posted before, the LR and sand will absorb some of the copper, so you need to add more until you bring it up to correct level. I wouldn't worry about the skimmer pulling out much copper just make sure you don't have anything in the tank that will pull it out, like carbon and such.
none of the on the shelf ick products that you see from the LFS work on ick. So do not waste money on them. The only two proven methods to treat mraine ich (or ick) that I know of are either using copper or hyposalinity.
if you only doing fish only, you can do this in your tank. But if you have corals or plan on having corals, you then need to isolate the fish and treat them in some kind of a so called hospital tank.
While treating the fish, you would then need to let your display tank go fish-less for at least 5-6 weeks for the ich to die off before you put the fish bank.
Just so know, most LFS where you buy the fish, most of them have copper in their fish only tank.
Good luck
if you only doing fish only, you can do this in your tank. But if you have corals or plan on having corals, you then need to isolate the fish and treat them in some kind of a so called hospital tank.
While treating the fish, you would then need to let your display tank go fish-less for at least 5-6 weeks for the ich to die off before you put the fish bank.
Just so know, most LFS where you buy the fish, most of them have copper in their fish only tank.
Good luck
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I think copper treatment is less risky than hypo salinity.
With hypo salinity, you are talking about life and dead here.
it's good practice that we need to quarantine newly bought fish.
I used to get ich (ick) left and right when i first got my hand wet in this so called money wasted hobby. Ever since I learned how to quarantine new fish, I have yet had one fish died in the last 4-5 years.
I do not care whether new fish healthy or not healthy, I always treat them with copper for 5 weeks before I let them go into my display tank just to be safe.
With hypo salinity, you are talking about life and dead here.
it's good practice that we need to quarantine newly bought fish.
I used to get ich (ick) left and right when i first got my hand wet in this so called money wasted hobby. Ever since I learned how to quarantine new fish, I have yet had one fish died in the last 4-5 years.
I do not care whether new fish healthy or not healthy, I always treat them with copper for 5 weeks before I let them go into my display tank just to be safe.
- Location
- The Big City
If it's Ich it doesn't matter if it Copper or Hypo, as both will work. The thing about Copper is some fish don't react well to it and in that case Hypo is the better way to go.
QT is the way to go, as for treating them with copper during QT, well that's not something that is need or should be done. You should observe the fish during QT and then if it shows signs of something, treat it with the correct medication. Remember copper doesn't work on everything, sometimes other medication is needed.
QT is the way to go, as for treating them with copper during QT, well that's not something that is need or should be done. You should observe the fish during QT and then if it shows signs of something, treat it with the correct medication. Remember copper doesn't work on everything, sometimes other medication is needed.
I have to somewhat disgree with Marrone a little bit. If you qt them and monitor them without treating, there is no guarantee that the fish is ich free. sometimes they do not show to the naked eye though.
because the operating cost to qt the fish, minds well treat them (either copper or hypo-salinity) so that they are ich free just to be safe.
anyways, it's part of reef and learn. people will know what to do after they have ich and lost fish a few times. I have been there and done that many times.
because the operating cost to qt the fish, minds well treat them (either copper or hypo-salinity) so that they are ich free just to be safe.
anyways, it's part of reef and learn. people will know what to do after they have ich and lost fish a few times. I have been there and done that many times.
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- Location
- The Big City
The whole purpose of QT a fish is to monitor it, and then if it is has something, treat it with the correct medication. If you're QT a fish for 4 - 6 week you should be able to see if the fish has something, especially Ich or Marine Velvet, at which point you can treat it either with Copper or Hypo. If the fish has something else, like a bacteria infection, you would then want to treat it with medication for a bacteria infection, and not copper.
- Location
- Flushing
I suffered an ich outbreak as soon as i got into hobby.. lost some fish but learned quick... IME hyposalinity is the easiest and cheapest way to go and 100% effective if done right.... over 2 days bring down and keep salinity at 1.008 at the point where you top off to compensate for the slight increase when water evaporates (a few fish can't handle the 1.008 so pay attention for odd behavior or stress) unless you're using an ATO. With an ATO just stick with 1.009. Always use a refractometer and never a hydrometer. Keep the QT tank aerated. IMO the DT and sump/fuge should be devoid of fish for 9 weeks (Yes i know 6-8 weeks is fine but 100% is always better than 99.9%). Since the DT needs to be fishless for 9 weeks the fish will be QT'd for more than enough time but for future fish 4 weeks QT from the time your salinity hits 1.008-1.009 or 5 weeks to be safe is all you need. This is all from experience and I'm actually doing this process with some fish i recently acquired and all fish since my outbreak and never had ich in my DT again. Even when Sandy killed a few of them and they were all stressed out, none had ich. I'm sure copper works just as good but why waste money that could be spent on corals lol. also since you have a FOWLR if you dont have any inverts or pods in your tank than you can skip the QT and just do the hypo but QT any future fish first.
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Hi guys, story of my ich treatment.
Started Monday noon, with Cupramine. 1mL for 10.5 gal.
I estimated my water volume to be ~480 gal to make calculation easier.
IMO LIVE ROCK is like sponge, it absorbs water so don't go crazy trying to taking it out of the equation.
Well, it absorbs alot more than I expected,
I've been dosing 45~ 50mL of Cupramine per day, and I think I finally got it to about 0.5mg/L. (thats close to 250mL of Cu) And I still see few spots, and couple of fish flashing.
Can't trust my eyes no more so I would like your help reading this Cu test.
Started Monday noon, with Cupramine. 1mL for 10.5 gal.
I estimated my water volume to be ~480 gal to make calculation easier.
IMO LIVE ROCK is like sponge, it absorbs water so don't go crazy trying to taking it out of the equation.
Well, it absorbs alot more than I expected,
I've been dosing 45~ 50mL of Cupramine per day, and I think I finally got it to about 0.5mg/L. (thats close to 250mL of Cu) And I still see few spots, and couple of fish flashing.
Can't trust my eyes no more so I would like your help reading this Cu test.
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Hey, hoping your treatment works for you. I found this thread on this forum posted by one of the mods. Hopefully it will somehow aid you in your fight. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
Greg! Thank you for the link to the article, I've read that article many times! Its an excellent article that really explains the parasite and life cycle. However, I do feel the sources are outdated and need to be refreshened.
Its been day 5 with copper treatment, I still have bristle worms that are living in the sand bed, despite the level of copper that I'm keeping in the tank.
I wanted to test if bristle worms were still wiggling because the medicated water didn't penetrate all the way down to the sand. As you can see the old layer and the new layer of sand. Some crawled out and died and few crawled deep down.
This could've been the reason why hyposalinity didn't work for me as well as I had anticipated. Parasites were buried down in deep layer where hyposaline water didn't penetrate. Or adaptation, survival of fittest! Because I gradually brought down the salinity, it also gave the parasites time to adapt? Don't know...
Anyways, All my fish are fine, seeing less and less signs and symptoms.
Its been day 5 with copper treatment, I still have bristle worms that are living in the sand bed, despite the level of copper that I'm keeping in the tank.
I wanted to test if bristle worms were still wiggling because the medicated water didn't penetrate all the way down to the sand. As you can see the old layer and the new layer of sand. Some crawled out and died and few crawled deep down.
This could've been the reason why hyposalinity didn't work for me as well as I had anticipated. Parasites were buried down in deep layer where hyposaline water didn't penetrate. Or adaptation, survival of fittest! Because I gradually brought down the salinity, it also gave the parasites time to adapt? Don't know...
Anyways, All my fish are fine, seeing less and less signs and symptoms.
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You are welcome, perhaps the article is a bit outdated. I found it that it put things in perspective for me. I am sure that there are more research done on this, but the general idea might have remained the same. Have you tried to use a plastic fork of some sort to kind of get the sand stirred up up a bit so you method you are using could penetrate deep into the sandbed (not sure if that is a good idea, just brain storming). I just know how this parasite could stress someone out, lost a powderblue tang to it. Any way, please keep us informed about the progress you are making.
- Location
- Valley stream
Yes me too
I'm battling the same thing too. I will be monitoring as well
I put my fish in a quarantine tank and doing copper
So we will see how it goes.
I'm battling the same thing too. I will be monitoring as well
I put my fish in a quarantine tank and doing copper
So we will see how it goes.
Oh man~ I feel ur stress!
As for me, its been 10 days with treatment, and all my 46 fish are doing well; meaning no sign of ich and behaving as usual. However, 2 yellow tangs and a juv bluface are showing some lateral line dz/erosion...So I cannot say how much damage copper does to the fish in long run. I named my blueface angel "wilson" after wilson's dz lol
I dont know what biological filter you are running in ur Q tank, but you need to pay close attetion to pH and ammonia level. You probably know this but just to freshen up, same amount of ammonia can be harmless to toxic at different pH.
I've seen more people lose their prized fish over ammonia spike than the treating diseases itself in a Q tank.
Good luck!
???? IMO... The amount of water that LR 'absorbs' is negligible ! It displaces water and absolutely reduces your 'actual water volume'
BTW... In your tank thread you state your tank is 120x30x30...that is not correct for a 420g
Albano, you are absolutely right! Live rock does displace water volume. I guess what I meant to say was that it absorbs copper, therefore, negligible. How much copper? I do not know, but a lot more than I've expected. I thought the amount absorbed would be equivalent to amount of water it was soaking in, but according to Boomer's explanation, it sounds like its got more to with how much calcium carbonate its made of. As for me, I ended up dosing double the amount of manufacture's suggestion.
And as for the volume of the tank, I think its pretty close... I used "tank volume calculator" link from Boomer's chemistry thread, it gave me 414gal. I think there is correction that has to be made because of the varying thickness. Tenacor made my tank, and they used 1" front & 2 sides, 3/4" in the back & top, 1/2" bottom. Anyways, 428 was the number Tenacor gave me. I also keep my water level near top in my overflow, so give or take, 420 is the number that I tell people when they ask.
Do you have more accurate equation in regards tank volume calculator?
sincerely,
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Actually with those outside dimensions, your tank came out to 469g and would be called a 470g tank!
I applaud you for calculating actual (interior) volume... Would make it easier if that's the way they were marketed!
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