FOWLR ich treatment ?

[SethKim]

Hi guys, I have ich in my FOWLR,
I have about 35 fish in the tank, I'm not too worried about the old veterans that I have. I'm particularly worried about my "EXPERT ONLY" fish
Achilles, (recent)
3 M. idols (new)
I've had the achilles since Nov 1, '12 and yes it's been having ich ever since day 1. Shows signs in the morning and gone by the evening. Repeating cycle.

All fish are eating well,
parameters, was running at 76, now its 80, kicking it up to 84
salinity 1.017 ppm --> dripping Kalk to lower it to 1.010 (would take about 40gal of fresh RO)

I've read Domboski's copper power exp, sounds pretty effective. Any other recommendations?
We are beyond garlic, please share your experience with Kick-ich or any other herbal medication in reef/Live rock system

 

[Domboski]

Go with hyposalinity and add a UV. Easiest and safest bet especially if all of your fish are established and healthy otherwise.

 

[Awibrandy]

Kick Ich doesn't work. Save your money.

 

[lnevo]

If you use copper you can forget about ever using that tank and rock for coral

 

[ducati335i]

Hypo only option.. Do it slow,, it's easy abd u will prob save every fish

 

[SethKim]

thanks guys! I've got the RO fully running, since yesterday, It only makes about 70gal/day,
salinity hasn't drop too much, 1.015ppm.
I did go ahead and dumped 16oz of Ich-X. I think the medication helped the established fish, but not so much on more delicate fish.

 

[Domboski]

If you use copper you can forget about ever using that tank and rock for coral

This is a myth. You can eventually remove copper from the rock and system.

 

[kres1024]

this is a myth. You can eventually remove copper from the rock and system.

+1

 

[Gwiz3005]

Wouldn't hypo kill all the live rock? Am I missing something? Won't that cause an ammonia spike?

 

[Domboski]

Wouldn't hypo kill all the live rock? Am I missing something? Won't that cause an ammonia spike?

No. The main issue you'll face is keeping the PH at appropriate levels.

 

[marrone]

The link below will give you all the information that you need on Hypo, including how to do it.

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum...-irritans-part-ii-hyposalinity-treatment.html

 

[SethKim]

So its been about a week since I kept my fish at 1.012 ppm
I lowered down to 1.008~1.009 and fish got stressed, so I brought it back up.
Its gotten worst in last two days. I think because it took me so much time to lower the salinity, the parasite also have adapted as well. Decided to go with copper treatment today

I had things going well for me with the tank, don't want to take the chance.

For about a week, my blonde got some nodule/granuloma around its mouth, can someone help me ID please

 

[marrone]

The Ich (parasites) go through stages, so you'll see periods where the fish looks better than they'll start to look worst. As for the Ich adapting to the lower SG, well that's not the case. If you keep the SG at 1.008-1.009 the Ich will eventually die, this usually happens over a period of 2 - 4 weeks. As for your fish stressing out, over the lower SG (1.008-.009), that could have been to the Ph dropping, something that you need to check and make sure it stays around 8.0.

If you plan on treating with copper you need to bring the SG back up and also make sure you have a good test kit, as if you're not treating at the correct level it's not going work.

 

[SethKim]

Thank you Marrone for quick response!
You wouldn't happen to know what pathogen that might be on my blonde naso, would you?

As far as keeping the pH above 8, I've been very diligent with that matter. I've been lowering salinity by adding RO water to kalk reactor, so the pH never fell below 8.06 (stays around 8.10~8.20)
I've decided to treat with copper for several reasons.
1. I don't see my Eight line butterfly since yesterday. It wasn't active the day before.
2. The infection on the Blonde naso does not look like its going to go away with hypo salinity, and whatever it may be, its already in the display tank so I need to treat that as well. I tried to catch the fish, but she only feeds on nori & lettuce so nearly impossible.
3. I saw the achilles tang swimming in front of the inlet stream, ich might have gotten to its gills already.

Couple of question regard copper treatment in FOWLR.
1. Can I run GFO while treating? I plan to treat with cupramine, and the company says remove chemical filters.
2. About salinity, should I target 1.019 or 1.025?

 

[marrone]

I can't really tell from the picture if it's a parasite or just some type of growth. Do you see anything on it that is moving, like it would be alive?

I'm assuming at this point that the Ich has really infected your tank pretty bad, so you can expect that most of your fish are fully infected with Ich, the gills areas being a prime area.

If you're going to treat with copper you should remove any carbon, GFO, Polypads, Chemi-pure or anything else that may remove the copper from your system. Bring the SG up to 1.019 is fine to 1.025 would be better but you can start treating at 1.019.

It's very important to get a good test kit that will read the copper, as you need to treat at .25 and keep it there for 2 - 4 weeks, 2 weeks after the last spot of ich has fallen off the fish, for it to be effective. I usually use Copper Power, but it's not always available at most stores. Also, because you have a lot of LR and sand in your tank you're going to have to add more copper to reach the correct level, as the LR and sand will absorb the copper. You also want to build up the level over a couple of days. So right now add about 1/4 of the recommended dosage and then test the level. From their you can slowly bring the dosage up over the next day.

 

[prattreef]

I agree with marrone, but will add that you need to bring the salinity up slowly too.

 

[ohana888]

FYI, if you have bristle worms & stars or any inverts/pods, they will all die - prepare for the ammonia spike. and you can't use any ammonia blockers (prime, amquel, etc.) these will make the copper toxic. make a LOT of water & keep the skimmer running. good luck with treatment!

btw, nice tamarin avatar. did you get the one from LA/DD?

 

[SethKim]

Thank you guys for such warm support! ^^

My total water volume is about 500gal (420tank + 60 sump + 20 skimmer)
so I treated with 45mL of Cupramine. Full strength seeking 0.5mg/L.
I just did my first Cu test and it was not even 0.25mg/L
Where did all Cu go?
It turns out that tanks with high levels of Ca2+ and Mg2+, "In tanks with large quantities of fresh crushed coral or tanks with high calcium concentrations (>400 mg/L), some CupramineTM may fall out of solution prematurely and redosing may be required."
So I guess I'll be needing lots more of cupramine, but I'll be testing as I go.

Tank parameters for now pH @ 8.06, salinity 1.014ppm. I'm mixing 50gal salt mix in a 5gal bucket, and I'll be dripping it slowly.

Honestly, only few fish show ich, and only in the morning...
By this time in the afternoon, they are invisible, but like I said earlier with loss of a fish and that idiopathic granuloma/nodule on naso tang kinda scared me and I had to treat it. Recently I've been putting a lot of time into my tank while trying to keep the habitants happy.

I was also planning to go reef soon!

I guess I'll have to hold on to that idea for a while. (sucks)
But I really do hope this treatment works out for my fish!

Quick question, do you think my skimmer could be over skimming copper?should I tone it down?

 

[SethKim]

btw, nice tamarin avatar. did you get the one from LA/DD?

No, This was fish from House of Fins...Back in the day!

 

[ohana888]

as marrone stated, your rock & sand also absorbs the copper so you will have to dose & test often. seachem has great cs. for more specifics, they answer all questions immediately.