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I'm sorry but I grew all my SPS from T5HO ATI unit. Leds are nice for softie tanks but spectrum and intensity has a lot to do with everything. I currently have a 30g nuvo with only softies and running leds...all is nice but SPS need intense light, random flow, clean & stable water, and full spectrum lighting. Its a combination of all really.

Just my 2 cents but I had great growth and color with my ATI T5HO SPS dominated.
 

duke62

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Here it is
 

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jackson6745

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Clearly the hobby is moving away from MH and t5 aka tank cooking energy inefficient old school bulbs.

Give it 5 years 99% of tanks will be lit by leds. Just my opinion.

I hope you're right. It would be nice to run a few low wattage LED's over my tank and be happy with the results. The truth is that many guys are moving to supplement their LED's with t5 to get better coverage. T5's are a linear source of light that eliminates any shadows, corals are illuminated completely. This is something that a point source of light doesn't do. I still believe that the best growth comes from t5 lighting.
As for MH being inefficient, well, it depends on the application. A 400w halide can light a 36x36 area with the proper reflector. This is full bright coverage. It would take a lot of LED's to get this coverage. This is something that must be seen and experienced. Based on reading and user opinions (many never ran anything other than LED) it seems that LED is the best lighting for everything. LED's are great for certain applications, but as in any lightning there are limitations.
 

coralcruze

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I hope you're right. It would be nice to run a few low wattage LED's over my tank and be happy with the results. The truth is that many guys are moving to supplement their LED's with t5 to get better coverage. T5's are a linear source of light that eliminates any shadows, corals are illuminated completely. This is something that a point source of light doesn't do. I still believe that the best growth comes from t5 lighting.
As for MH being inefficient, well, it depends on the application. A 400w halide can light a 36x36 area with the proper reflector. This is full bright coverage. It would take a lot of LED's to get this coverage. This is something that must be seen and experienced. Based on reading and user opinions (many never ran anything other than LED) it seems that LED is the best lighting for everything. LED's are great for certain applications, but as in any lightning there are limitations.

Rich, I'm with you on alot of what you say and can tell you is the main reason why I went to Kessils because of thier unique design. everyone has thier own expectations of lighting and its a hot topic in the hobby because everyone likes differant color/effects. some more blue than others. personally I like less blue and get a kick from growth so my tank is more white than others keep it at. However, with a turn of a knob I can get those colors to pop which is super.

I am a Kessil LED only user (nothing else on my tank at the moment). LED's are a linear light source though and I have run MH (HQI's) prior. I currently use Kessil LED which IMHO are quite differant than other LED lights out there as it is basically similar to a point source light and act more like halides and also is full spectrum with UV built in. Having said this, covrage is an issue with Kessils. Two a360we's do not cover MY ENTIRE 36 x 36 TANK. Thats because kessils light up an area 24 x 24 according to kessil (this is my fault, I may have asked more from the lights than they are capable). In reality I'm thinking more realistically 18 x 18 area is the correct coverage for kessil a360we's. Prior to my kessils my double HQI's also had issues with coverage on this 36 x 36 tank. Kessils just like my HQI's dont reach the front and back well on a 36" x 36" tank when the lights are side by side of each other... i GUESS i COULD HAVE TRIED THOSE UGLY HUGE REFLECTORS :D but wasn't what i was trying to achieve with the overall look of the tank. More correctly...I should say I cant grow >>>SPS<<< in the front or back with either kessils or HQI's, its perfectly fine for other corals though. Other issue with kessils is shadows with SPS. I will not go back to HQI's or halides because of the following reasons, energy savings, bulb costs, ability to customise color with a turn of a knob, and biggest benefit is almost no heat transfer which means no chiller and even more energy savings. More importantly the last part makes for a more >>>stable system<<< which affects the SPS in a positive way. The coloration I get and control with LED's alone is incredible and cant be duplicated with HQI's or halides easily without buying new bulbs and supplimenting with other type of lighting system. So having said all of the above, I do need two more Kessils over my 36 x36 tank, no doubt about that. If you have rock work 18" x 18" than all you need is one to two kessils.

now there are some interesting things happening in the LED market right now. I think other LED manufacturers are catching onto UV's benefit as being true full spectrum. This one has promise as "supplimental LED light" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBKEt4pc3jo <<< dont think can be used alone like the kessils. I would love to hear is anyone out there uses these as main light on thier tanks and grow SPS. They just came on the market recently so I haven't found any good info on them.

and now kessils... pay close attention to the distance the kessils are installed at... more like every 18". especially the a360we fixtures. The other smaller fixtures even closer together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpeJ57675lE

I personally think that LED has promise in the hobby than other types of lights including HQI and Halides due to heat issues alone. Ecotec and AI's continue to be most popular though but you need to place those even closer together to get proper coverage for SPS IMHO. I don't like them because they are not single point source which have an effect on overall look. Some people don't like what they call the "disco effect" (I call shimmer) caused by single point sources like hallides and kessils. I love it but to each his/her own. other led lights do not have this shimmer effect.
 
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coralcruze

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here is an informative vid on the kessils (but don't buy them from BRS I got them cheaper elsewhere with better service) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjVWKsFARRs

only thing I disagree with in the vid having the a360we's now for over a year on my tank is they DO NOT have 30" of coverage for SPS corals. yes 30" for softies or LPS but is you are keeping mostly sps corals like me... this light is more like 18 x 18" coverage. Hence my need to get two more kessils over my tank (Total of 4).
 
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jackson6745

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Thanks for posting that video. I always liked Kessils. I find them to be visually dim, and the spread isn't so great like you said, but the spectrum produced is impressive. Kenny's (poto) tank looked bright by stacking kessils close togther. He had one every 12" if i remember correctly? If I was to switch to them over my cube I would probably make a floating canopy and install 4 Kessils and retrofit in some t5s. My tank is doing extremely well now so I don't want to mess with it, but eventually once it grows out I will change over. Thanks for your input.
 

coralcruze

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Thanks for posting that video. I always liked Kessils. I find them to be visually dim, and the spread isn't so great like you said, but the spectrum produced is impressive. Kenny's (poto) tank looked bright by stacking kessils close togther. He had one every 12" if i remember correctly? If I was to switch to them over my cube I would probably make a floating canopy and install 4 Kessils and retrofit in some t5s. My tank is doing extremely well now so I don't want to mess with it, but eventually once it grows out I will change over. Thanks for your input.

First, Rich... when you say the kessil a360WE seem too dim for you are you sure you saw the >>>A360WE<<< or did you see the a360??? the WE is a differant light fixture and some using the older a360's were complaining that it was too dim. Thats no longer the case with the WE's. I took a trip to Manhattan aquarium to see first hand befor switching to Kessils. they have the WE's set up and i was sold. Not dim at all. FYI, I have mine set to 80% and I'm fine at this setting. plenty bright for me.

NOW, are they dimmer than my old hqi's? perhaps a bit... are they dimmer than the single ended MH's I used to use a while back? I'd say about the same as those. I actually think that my old HQI's were too bright for my tank (an 18" shallow reef)...

so... brightness and intensity just isn't the issue with the kessils anymore. The issue for me is lineal light source vs. the sun. I'm not so sure hallides ever achieved true sun effect as reflectors are needed and used and we all know how much intensity is lost with halides due to the shape of the bulb, right? or the reflectors not being optimal, right? or not cleaning the glass and PAR goes downhill, right? LED are linear light source meaning they need to be pointed at what you are trying to light, However, paired with the right lense like kessils are and you have something totaly differant than typical LED's... I don't consider kessils an LED like others as I already entioned. its more a hybrid LED because of market trends the ecotec and ai brands caused. otherwise kessisl would be the standard in LED for the hobby... but thats a totaly differant subject.

as for spread not being so great... mnnn I wouln't say that either. because when you say the spread isnt so great than I would ask... as compared to what??? remember that I said that I had the same issue with spread with HQI's on the same 36 x 36 tank (see first comment). BRS video stated the spread is 30", Kessil sais the spread on the we's are 24" and i think the spread is 18" but even at 18" they are still half the cost as other halide fixtures. and i would say that halides are really 24" spread. again the figures above is when growing SPS. whould you take a tort frag and place it more than 12" from a light? same way I would place it further than 9" from a kessil.

Now, if you take the fixture price of two kessils over the long run (say greater than two years) plus thier operating costs when you also consider that no chiller is needed and the tank is more stable due to little to no heat transfer, and no need to spend $80 a bulb every year on halides, what you find is the LED's win hands down over any HQI or Halide competitor. Try it, I did with the unit I was using. as a rule of thumb I find LED's to be half the cost when all the above is considered. so when i get two more kessils (and I plan to go with LED Kessils over halides) I will still be paying half of what i would have with HQI halides or other single ended halide. so LED cost less, much less. Now when I put the proper amount of kessil fixtures over my 36 x 36 tank i will be all set and i dont think i would need T5's to suppliment or any other supplimentation for that matter like i did with hallides.

and Rich when you consider what you can do with LED's that you cant with halides it becomes clear that Halides really are yesteryear. having said this perhaps its time to sell off my old HQI fixtures and balasts... I held on to it just in case the kessils didn't work out but they are collecting dust now. You interested? :D
 
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jackson6745

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I actually saw both kessils in action. It was the 360 that appeared dim now that you mention it. I didn't realize there was such a difference in brightness between the we and the regular. The a360 was on a larger tank so I though that's why it appeared dim. Cool, good to know.
When you say HQI, I assume you mean double ended halide correct? DE halides have poor spread in comparison to SE halides in luminac style reflectors. DE halides became popular because they had a brighter hot spot. Everyone was obsessed with par at the time, and the center spread of the DE bulbs had higher par than SE bulbs. Overall the SE bulbs gave better par as it spread out. You get true 36x36 SPS coverage with a SE halide in a large luminarc or lumimax (whatever they call them these days). I am not a fan of DE halides as they are truly inefficient. I would rather have a kessil :)

I always believed that LED's are not a linear light source but rather a point source light like a halide? I though fluorescent tubes were the linear light source? Now I'm confused :)

I understand your points and they make total sense on paper. It just doesn't work out like that in real life. My tank is bright. SPS are all over at every angle getting blasted. Colors are there, growth is there, there are no shadows. No way can 2 kessil cover my tank the same way. It would be costly to get the same coverage. I honestly think I may even need 5 kessil to get the same coverage. My halide runs 5 hours per day, t5 and led reefbrites run the rest. I don't need a chiller with an ambient room temp of 72 degrees. It's not as inefficient as you think. You need to see 400w radium tanks in person to make the comparison.

Full coverage with one halide (holding corals for a friend on the racks)
Oct7 Sfiligoi by rich.colombo, on Flickr
With that said, I am jealous of the spectrum controllability of LED's I just don't feel like dropping 2k at the moment to take a chance. I just need a little more faith in these lights, after growing out my reef and i'll take the plunge.

I actually think I may plumb in a frag tank soon. I think it's a good opportunity to try a kessil :) This is my favorite LED even though I'm not an LED fan :D
 
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coralcruze

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see this is why i love this thread... I'm learning as much as others. I honestly never knew that HQI's are less efficient than SE bulbs... I thought it was the other way around??? now I'm confused too. lol.

is your fixture this one? http://www.reefbrite.com/reefbrite-halide-hybrid/ I have to admit that in that picture you posted the colors really pop. and the growth looks great too. did you grow those/most from frags? and how deep is your tank?

as for my use of the word >linear< I may have misused it. don't know. by linear i meant you have to point the led to what you want lit. perhaps others can confirm but wasnt that the big issue with the first led fixtures? people were burning thier corals because similar to a laser beam the leds intensity shoots straight down and hase little/no spread. its only when you use an appropriate lense that you get a proper spread of that light. Isn't that correct? T5's are flourecents and use phospherouse in a tube. The light is creating by delivering an electric ark through the tube. This is why you may be thinking that T5's are linear. however true linear light is laser beam. The light emitted by a T5 is still being transmitted from a tube in 360 degree in all directions. again perhaps other can correct anything I say.

Thanks Rich for clarifying about SE and DE. Very interesting. There is no denying your tank speaks volume and makes me want to purchase some SE and throw it on my tank LOL.
 

jackson6745

SPS KILLER
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That's why I chose such a bold title for the thread. I wanted the LED guys in here :) There's always much to learn. My fixture is the Sfiligoi xr6. It also has 4 t5's and I added 2 blue reefbrites to the fixture. My tank is 11 months old and most of the corals are grown from frags, with a couple mini colonies as well. You can see more pics from the beginning on my tank thread
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/tank-threads/151411-jacksons-custom-115g-cube-build-2.html

The main reason why I went with a cube is so I can light it with 1 halide. Funny because I actually had reefoman build the tank around my light lol. This is why I'm apprehensive about making the change. My dimensions 32x32x26 kind of suck for overall led efficiency. I would have to purchase several units to make sure I have the proper coverage, which will obviously overlap in sections. I want to play with LED lights so bad but I am afraid to mess the tank up. I'm gonna make plans to add a frag tank very soon! I'll mess around with LED on there to start :)

I'm going to look into the linear light source thing. Hopefully someone can clarify on here.
 

coralcruze

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Rich i was just checking out your pictures on the thread... very nice. can i ask you to confirm something... you said you are getting 36" coverage with the reflectors on your light. is that correct? you also said your tank is 32 x 32 and judging by your pics it looks like the rock work and corals are mostly within 24 x 24 area based on the pictures and the size of your tank. You actually grow frags out against the glass at 32 x 32? I do see that your frag racks are on the side glass so it seems that you are in fact growing them in the at 31 x 31 max. footprint. Reason i ask again is that my tank is 36 x 36... and obviousely I need more coverage as my rock footprint is about 30 x 30. I grow corals very nicely within most of the rock but since my kessils are side by side of each other I dont get good coverage in the fron and back of my rock footprint. which in turn forces me to place LPS or zoas there. It would be nice to be able to use more real estate for SPS like you seem to be doing. Thats why I know I need at least two more kessils or other :D to get the coverage I need. From above your tank, if you took a tape measure what would the actual footprint of your rockwork be? 27 x 27, 24 x 24? or other? I'm always looking to improve and I know I need to add to my setup. trying to determine with what? If your reflector allows actual 36 x 36 coverage than a single bulb with the right reflector sounds like it would do it for me. However I would not add T5's to mine and would let the kessils be suplimental lol.Thanks...
 
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