Colon Health, Gut Loaded and ?Clean? food

[Paul B]

I take care of the big tank at Steinhart.

The big tank at Steinhart is not a home aquarium. In such a large tank the ocean biosystem is much easier to maintain. We hear have mostly home tanks and not public aquarium set ups.


Here is another video, every fish in here, except the copperband (I wish) is spawning and they are all eating live worms. And none of them have been quarantined

 

[Thales]

In such a large tank the ocean biosystem is much easier to maintain.

You are incorrect.

 

[Thales]

You are confusing evidence for proof, and anecdote for solid evidence.

Fish do not mostly eat other fish fry.

 

[John D Hirsch MD]

Then why do so few fish fry survive? What happens to them? I assume they are eaten. I have had the same diving experience as Paul B and was particularly interested in the feeding habits of the reef inhabitants.
Doc

 

[Thales]

Lots of fish fry get eaten; saying fish "eat mostly fish fry that are all over the place near the bottom of coral and rocks" is an anecdotal observation converted to fact even though it isn't really true.

 

[Thales]

And atlantic feeding habits are not the same as south pacific feeding habits.
And, no, I don't think I am going to whip out my diving dick to show you all how long it is.

 

[Paul B]

OK, I give up.
I actually said this:


Quote: That food usually comes from scraps from other larger fishes meals as fish are very sloppy. (most fish on a reef are tangs and they will graze all day) Most, but not all coral fish will occasionally dip down to the lower parts of the reef to grab a few fish fry.


I am to old to argue. But I did enjoy this conversation. Have your professor beat up my professor. OH I forgot, I don't have no professor. Have a great day.

 

[Charley]

Thales.....certainly would be awesome if you could enlighten us what fish really do eat out in the wildly mostly. Would also be great if you could share with us what you feed the inhabitants of the Steinhart reef tank. Been on this forum for almost 2 years now and never observed a terrific discussion like this and the opportunity to ask someone such as yourself these types of questions. So interesting for all of us I am sure and greatly appreciated.

As for Paul, he has kindly and humorously shared in his experiences that work so very, very for him with us. Say what you may, but at least with Paul it is very clear cut and I can picture having better success if I did feed blackworms everyday. His videos are the most "proof" or whatever you wish to call it that we ever get to see.....well let me correct myself, the only other proof as it relates to breeding has been articles and videos involving LRS fish foods. That is why I use them. Oddly enough, LRS has added blackworms to some of his products. At least LRS seems to be enhancing their product line with things that seem and what we heard actually works...

Until as a hobbyist, I see more evidence, anecdotes, or whatever....what else is there so solid to go by?

 

[Thales]

OK, I give up.
I actually said this:


Quote: That food usually comes from scraps from other larger fishes meals as fish are very sloppy. (most fish on a reef are tangs and they will graze all day) Most, but not all coral fish will occasionally dip down to the lower parts of the reef to grab a few fish fry.


I am to old to argue. But I did enjoy this conversation. Have your professor beat up my professor. OH I forgot, I don't have no professor. Have a great day.

Dude:

 

[Thales]

Until as a hobbyist, I see more evidence, anecdotes, or whatever....what else is there so solid to go by?

http://packedhead.net/2010/skeptica...g-is-true-or-did-someone-just-tell-it-to-you/

http://packedhead.net/2014/skeptical-reefkeeping-x-the-power-of-anecdote/

 

[Charley]

Ok Thales......interesting, but there is no point to your point. Most, if not all of us on this forum are not research scientists, not going to spend countless hours in a library and so on. Should I give up my membership in the aquarium club I belong to because basically all info being shared is anecdotal? Not like we are getting any interesting info on the nutrition and food used in the Steinhart aquarium. So I will stick with the likes of LRS, Dr. Hirsh, Paul B, and others who posted some great info on this thread. My only point to this discussion is that no researchers from anywhere provides any info we can latch onto. No research being done on nutrition to prove anything one way or the other. No one should ever complain we lose a few fish due to a lack of any real hard definitive useful science that apparently does not exist and if it does it's not going to be shared with the average hobbyist. So for me, I will run with the observational, anecdotal, non scientific info and all the stuff big corporations are selling us....there is nothing else anyways.....

 

[Thales]

I don't think you read the links or understand my point. If you want to know more, let me know what you think my point is and I'll take a crack at it.

 

[Charley]

Sure did......

 

[Thales]

What do you think I think the point is?

For example you seem to have missed this "Anecdotal evidence has its place in the world, and in a hobby like ours its downright necessary. Dictionary.com defines anecdotal evidence as ?non-scientific observations or studies, which do not provide proof but may assist research efforts.? Our hobby has certainly pushed research ? just look at the lighting studies of Sanjay Joshi which helped to put to rest the misleading ?watts per gallon? lighting rule, or the recent skimmer studies by Ken Feldman that are putting some real data into what protein skimmers are actually doing. However, a lot of the stuff we deal with everyday has not really been looked at with scientific scrutiny because real science takes time, money, expertise and review. There are about a bagillion things that reefers want studied that simply aren?t going to be gotten to anytime soon. We all rely on observational reports to make some day-to-day decisions about our tank?s flow, lighting, feeds, animal interactions, and more. I think it is important that we remember that anecdote has its limits, be careful in your reporting and even more cautious in your reading."

And possibly the entire second link

 

[Thales]

And nothing interesting to tell you about Steinhart's feeds - PE mysis, Hikari mysis, small krill, cyclopeeze, bbs and Reef Nutrition ROE for the small guys. Chopped gel diet, prawn or clam tongue for the big guys. Some nori. Going to replace the small krill with LRS Big Boy blend as soon as the box arrives.
No magic answer, just food.

 

[Charley]

Nope, did not miss it As you point out lighting and protein skimming now may have some real data behind it and that is great of course. But on this thread interested in fish food nutrition.

Doing my best to drag out of you what you feed the fish at the Steinhart aquarium! Is the food you feed based on real data or is it based also on a collection anecdotal info? If it is based on real data, can you share the data/research/info? You do realize if it is all blackworms I will not stop laughing for a month!

If the aquarium is being fed based on a collection of anecdotes, then Paul B, if I may suggest based on his 40yr+ history and dedication and consistency is on par in this regard as the Steinhart aquarium? Is this not a logical conclusion. I could understand if he fed for just 6 mos. But Paul has amassed historical data for 40 yrs + even if not completely scientific.

So for the lack of real data relating to fish food nutrition ...... I will stick with anecdotal stories, hearsay, blogs, hand written notes left around, etc.

Please, I only make these comments in good fun and discussion.

 

[Thales]

Yep - missing the point. Let me know if you are interested in clarification.

 

[Charley]

Surely of course but also do not want to hijack this thread....but if it relates and helps us all, then go for it.

 

[Charley]

Thank you for sharing the food diet for the Steinhart Aquarium.....much appreciated!

 

[Paul B]

I just published this book. "The Avant-Garde Marine Aquarist" It has absolutely no scientific studies or more than a couple of scientific references so it is all anecdotal and not meant to be read by anyone who needs a scientist to tell him how to run a tank. Of course it is full of pictures which to me are proof of diet and care of a reef tank, but again anecdotal. I only wrote it because, being I have the oldest tank on here, and maybe in America (but not as old as the Steinhart Aquarium) I figured I had a few things to share before I get to old to spell anecdotal.
I also know about Thiel (he is actually a friend of mine) Martin Moe, who started the same time as me, maybe the same week, as did Dr Schmick. Bob Goemens is also a friend of mine and has been to my home and although I know and met Sanjo, I don't really know him that well. Nice guy though. Have a great discussion, but whatever you do, don't read my book. :biggrin:
Before I read this thread I thought a knew at least a couple of things, now I realize I know nothing except anecdotes. My life is over. Anecdotally speaking.