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beerfish

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Good for you. You obviously started this thread to prove to everyone that you know more than all of the amazingly successful reefers here. So you do what you want, and when you eventually need help (every reefer does eventually), we'll refer you to this thread. I'll end with this...

It takes me about 30 seconds to pick up my collection cup, walk to the sink, dump it and return it. That means I save about 34.5 minutes a week. In one month, my skimmer has paid for itself.

Any reefers with a skimmer want to grab a beer? at 34.5 minutes a week, we have an extra day over the course of the year!
 

SWITCH420

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honestly i dont know that much about saltwater still a newbie and of course i will need help never said i didnt only point im trying to prove is half the stuff you think u know is wrong im not the only one running this set up it works and its not just luck or something i like to question people go against the grain just cause some one uses big words and writes a book dont mean there right or know what there talking about i did a lot of reading before i set up a tank why i question things i dont just belive everything people say and this hobby is full of ???????? and eveyones got a diffrent answer 4 the same ? think how much beer u could of had for what u paid 4 ur skimmer :givebeer:
 

sharkbait69

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. So you do what you want, and when you eventually need help (every reefer does eventually), we'll refer you to this thread. It takes me about 30 seconds to pick up my collection cup, walk to the sink, dump it and return it. That means I save about 34.5 minutes a week. In one month, my skimmer has paid for itself.
i don't think i have ever read any statement more true then that.
I don't think i would even humor the idea of a SW tank with no skimmmer, even a limewood skimmer. Some type of skimming is needed.
mother nature knows better then all of us. She makes turf scrubbers on the jetty rocks and even skims when the wind blows. So whos gonna be the first to argue with her???

Any reefers with a skimmer want to grab a beer? at 34.5 minutes a week, we have an extra day over the course of the year!
a pint of blue moon with an orange please.
 

SWITCH420

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so sharkbait WHY do u need a skimmer my tank is great and no skimmer??so if u need a skimmer and i dont have one why is my tank fine??thats what i mean people say u have to have one but cant tell u why im only asking a question thats all
 

juiceguy

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there are still a couple of methods that do not require skimmers but it is up to the individual and the type of corals you want to keep, softies and some lps prefer a more nutrient rich environment.

i keep sps and i don't like water changes so a skimmer is a piece of equipment that i feel is a must to have sps thrive. i only do water changes every 2-3 months and only 20-25% at a time.
 

SWITCH420

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i only do 2-5 gallons a week and there have been times i waited 3-4 weeks to do water changes got lazy and there are a few sps frags in the tank its a very mixed reef tank
 

beerfish

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honestly i dont know that much about saltwater

Somehow that statement doesn't seem to work with this one.

im trying to prove is half the stuff you think u know is wrong

Take a look through some of the Tank of the Month nominees and see how many run skimmerless:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-04/totm/index.php

Now look at your tank... look at these tanks, and tell me that you're proving them wrong.

Everyone here but you agrees that there are different ways to run a successful tank, and that it's a matter of what works best for each person. You want to argue that you're right and everyone else is wrong.
 

SWITCH420

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LMAO heres a link u should read http://www.***********.com/reef-dis...ver-replaces-skimmer-refugium-everything.html

The trick of skimmer popularity

In my reading of what is going on lately with the discussions of skimmer vs. skimmerless tanks, I'm seeing the same fallacy repeated over and over and over, usually by the most experienced reefers who have been around the longest: "Because everyone uses skimmers, a skimmer must be required or else they wouldn't use one." Or, "Every Tank-Of-The-Month has a skimmer, therefore a skimmer is required to give you the best chance of a TOTM."

It's all completely irrelevant. I can't believe how many people fall for this line of reasoning. This trick is taught in Debate class in high school; It's called "Appeal to Poplulariy", otherwise known at Argumentum ad populum...

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On a side note, realize that many people are paid to promote skimmers. Millions of dollars are put into the marketing and promotion of skimmers, and some of that money goes into the pockets of the people who are posting reasons to have skimmers. Also, there must be a hundred companies who make skimmers, and all of them have promotion budgets. The job of promotion is to "get the word out". How many Algae Scrubber companies have promotion budgets? Zero, because there are no companies. Scrubbers are DIY. This is why the "popular thinking" is to use a skimmer... because skimmers are all anyone reads about. Promotion is my day job, and this is exactly how it works.
 
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beerfish

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

You're telling everyone here that you know better, and that we shouldn't believe anything we read about skimmers, when you copied a post from someone else. Yes people cite TOTMs having skimmers... because they work.

So you read one guy's post (who goes from forum to forum promoting turf scrubbers), and decided he must be right?

I don't make millions of dollars promoting skimmers, but I will promote them because of the fact that when I've had any sort of issue with my skimmer, I've noticed the change in my tank. Skimmers work. Nuff said.

Somebody please close this thread, since it's nothing more that this guy trying to prove that he's right and everyone else is wrong.
 

sharkbait69

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Wow, way too much attention for the tough guy from Jersey.....
Hey?.. Easy with the jersey comments, lol.

so sharkbait WHY do u need a skimmer my tank is great and no skimmer??so if u need a skimmer and i dont have one why is my tank fine??thats what i mean people say u have to have one but cant tell u why im only asking a question thats all

 
 
If you reread my statement, you?d see I said, I WOULD NOT EVEN HUMOR THE IDEA. it's my feeling and opinion.
Now, as to no one being able to answer why a system needs a skimmer, I can?t answer that. As for my opinion, a closed system needs a nutrient and solids remover. You have a turf scrubber. So you have a source of nutrient removal. The way I understand it with a turf scrubber, it needs to be trimmed/cleaned off since a turf scrubber has no predation going on, I.e hermits and fish to trim it back. You have to pretty much wipe the screen clean. In my guess when you wipe the screen clean you are losing nutrient removal till new growth starts. Where a skimmer is a simple cup removal dump and rinse. Maybe a 30 minute full cleaning. Pump starts the skimmer is building and removing nutrients all in the same day.
I can not see letting a turf scrubber continue growing. Would it not just become an over grown mess? I ask cause I don?t know.
Its kind of like why does the ocean have algae growing on jetty rocks (turf scrubber) and the build up of sea foam on the beaches when the wind blows (skimmer) I can only assume that?s natures way of maintaining the ocean. Working in conjunction together maintains the water quality all the much more.
plus, as a system gets older its inevitable the build up of tds and nutrient and i would fear a crash would be more likely without a good nutrient remover.
As to a system with no skimming or scrubbing and only a water change, it?s a time bomb building up to blow up.
Again I run SPS, so in my opinion a skimmer is a must. Don?t take it personally when people jump up and say skimmers are a ?must?
Anything else is going against the grain of the hobby.
 

SWITCH420

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your just closed minded there are 50 more sites i can point u to his post just fit i am trying to prove there is more than one way to run a tank you trying to fight facts not me i dont care if u buy 10 more skimmers there are ways of doing it u dont agree with so ur way is the only right way?come on
 

sharkbait69

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Somebody please close this thread, since it's nothing more that this guy trying to prove that he's right and everyone else is wrong.

wait, wait, wait. Part of me agrees with you, the other side wants to subscribe to his postings about his tanks.
I would really like to see how long the whole idea goes, patients and tanks. I would like to see how long a crash can be warded off. As long as the poster is honest in his reporting.
The turf scrubber is not new to the hobby but its getting more and more attention now. Who knows for sure just how well a turf scrubber works on a tank??? Now that its getting mainstream attention.
While I don?t think a turf scrubber is the end all to filtration I do however think it can have its place in the hobby.
Again, I can?t argue against mother nature, she has algae growing on rocks and skimming so, it goes without saying or it should the two forms of nutrient removal and filtration has its place.
I think the big question is can one cancel the other?
 

jackson6745

SPS KILLER
Location
NJ
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Switch keep an open mind man. Look at the quality of the livestock in the TOTM's. Look at the colors and growth. You're keeping a tank full of softies and your advocating running skimmerless and tap water. It's not about popularity it's more about personal success. Corals are expensive as you know, using a quality skimmer keeps a lower waste level and improves the health, growth, and coloration of many corals (especially SPS).

I am not paid by anyone to promote certain skimmers and I have gone your route in the past. The truth is a QUALITY skimmer is much more effective at reducing organics that an algae scrubber, based on my experience and the experience of friends running successful tanks. If you test your phosphate with a Hana Colorimeter you'll see what I mean.
 

SWITCH420

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I have a real job and because i question things im wrong wow who is acting like there shoe size i honestly am just looking expand my knowledge of reef keeping not fighting over it i never told anyone to remove there skimmers right and people are wondering like me i just had the balls to try it and it works so go fig? i learn stuff all the time about this hobby but u need a open mind
 

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