? for people who say a skimmer is a must
- Thread starter SWITCH420
- Start date
- Location
- Greenpoint Brooklyn, NY
So, been reading through. This thread is amazing for the simple fact that it contains the largest number of egotistical, pompous and stubborn posts ive yet to see in all the posts on MR combined, and all from one member. Sadly, in trying to "go against the grain" switch just made himself look like a big ...
... the only good thing in making such a scene of himself is that this talk about turf scrubbers and all the other good info people posted about skimmers and scrubbers is going to stick with people alot more than any other type of post about scrubbers.
Turf scrubbers and the methodology behind them have been used before and by alot of other people, and is one way to export nutrients. So your not going against the grain there. Neither are you for using tap water, as alot of people can use their tap for their reef tanks, but the majority of people can't. The only good thing you did was shed the light on a few people that haven't browsed the RC threads about turf scrubbers. Why skimmers work and how and why they are always given as advice to keeping reef tanks im not going to get into, its been said here, on this post alone, plenty of times by very very knowledgeable reefers.
Simon made a really good point. I think Switch needs to read and reread it a bunch of times till it hopefully sinks in. Probably won't but its worth a shot.
Quote:
Edit to add a conclusion as I feel alot of the time threads on this subject become a war of methods, rather than anything realy constructive...why anyone needs to pull other methods apart to defend thier own I'll never know, but when its done with flawed or innacurate information, that just makes it worse for the unknowing unfortunately..
So heres my exiting conclusions based on my experience and understanding of both natural and artificial methodology..
Does ATS work ?...yep, it certainly does..
Does it negate a load of other equipment.? in some cases yes, in others no.
Does it mean the hobby at large has been doing it wrong for years (including all the proffesionals and authors etc..?...Erm, no it doesnt not by a long long way. All it proves is what we already know...There are a million and one ways to run a reef which dependent on a whole host of criteria will either succeed or fail, but no single method offers instant nor guarenteed success. The degree of that success is ultimately down to the keeper and thier knowledge (factual over assumed) rather than the method itself.
Because although he's right about the turf scrubbers, he's completely wrong about skimmers, whats actually happening using both forms of nutrient export, and his tap water comments and anything else he's been saying for that matter.
YAY! Grats to switch, he's one of the few that can use their tap water without causing a major algae outbreak or keep anything except brown coral. I'll start sending you my tap water for water changes and we'll see how long your tank will last untill your whole tank turns into a turf scrubber. I'll ship it free of charge as long as you post the results after 3 months =0)
Not everyone can use their tap water, and the percentage of people that can in the tri state is very very low. If you don't believe me i can start posting past MR topics of people using tap, having an algae outbreak and only fixing it by using RO or the bottled saltwater. And a good percentage of those tanks started with "my friend/fishstore said my tap should be fine" or "i read someone said they kept a tank with tap water and it was fine".
This thread would be ALOT more useful if it spoke about good turf scrubber builds or improving the methods (yes, turf scrubbers can be much improved on and can go way past a light bulb, some mesh and flowing water) and educating members here what the pro's and cons to both. Since both methods obviously work, not just turf scrubbers like switch states. And i think its good to have educated new members rather than misguided ones posted by rebel wannabe's.
Turf scrubbers and the methodology behind them have been used before and by alot of other people, and is one way to export nutrients. So your not going against the grain there. Neither are you for using tap water, as alot of people can use their tap for their reef tanks, but the majority of people can't. The only good thing you did was shed the light on a few people that haven't browsed the RC threads about turf scrubbers. Why skimmers work and how and why they are always given as advice to keeping reef tanks im not going to get into, its been said here, on this post alone, plenty of times by very very knowledgeable reefers.
Simon made a really good point. I think Switch needs to read and reread it a bunch of times till it hopefully sinks in. Probably won't but its worth a shot.
Edit to add a conclusion as I feel alot of the time threads on this subject become a war of methods, rather than anything realy constructive...why anyone needs to pull other methods apart to defend thier own I'll never know, but when its done with flawed or innacurate information, that just makes it worse for the unknowing unfortunately..
So heres my exiting conclusions based on my experience and understanding of both natural and artificial methodology..
Does ATS work ?...yep, it certainly does..
Does it negate a load of other equipment.? in some cases yes, in others no.
Does it mean the hobby at large has been doing it wrong for years (including all the proffesionals and authors etc..?...Erm, no it doesnt not by a long long way. All it proves is what we already know...There are a million and one ways to run a reef which dependent on a whole host of criteria will either succeed or fail, but no single method offers instant nor guarenteed success. The degree of that success is ultimately down to the keeper and thier knowledge (factual over assumed) rather than the method itself.
YAY! Grats to switch, he's one of the few that can use their tap water without causing a major algae outbreak or keep anything except brown coral. I'll start sending you my tap water for water changes and we'll see how long your tank will last untill your whole tank turns into a turf scrubber. I'll ship it free of charge as long as you post the results after 3 months =0)
Not everyone can use their tap water, and the percentage of people that can in the tri state is very very low. If you don't believe me i can start posting past MR topics of people using tap, having an algae outbreak and only fixing it by using RO or the bottled saltwater. And a good percentage of those tanks started with "my friend/fishstore said my tap should be fine" or "i read someone said they kept a tank with tap water and it was fine".
This thread would be ALOT more useful if it spoke about good turf scrubber builds or improving the methods (yes, turf scrubbers can be much improved on and can go way past a light bulb, some mesh and flowing water) and educating members here what the pro's and cons to both. Since both methods obviously work, not just turf scrubbers like switch states. And i think its good to have educated new members rather than misguided ones posted by rebel wannabe's.
- Location
- Greenpoint Brooklyn, NY
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
You mean the ones that lived through the 1st introduction, debates, trials and tribulations and ultimately marginalization of the ATS methodology? or the ones that lived through the days of reefkeeping before ro/di units were commonly used?
I am curious what is your TDS from the tap in your part of NJ? here in NYC it is a VERY low @30-35 ppm. and using tap for most in NYC has produced very bad results.
a lot of things change over time
years ago..u cant have a small saltwater setup impossible now nanos are the norm.
u cant use led lights now they are becoming the norm.
a lot of changes been made to scrubbers over the years so look at what im saying things that would never work in reefing now do scrubbers are no different.
years ago..u cant have a small saltwater setup impossible now nanos are the norm.
u cant use led lights now they are becoming the norm.
a lot of changes been made to scrubbers over the years so look at what im saying things that would never work in reefing now do scrubbers are no different.
- Location
- Southampton UK
If nothing else, lets all agree that this post offers some invaluable insite into how discussions should and shouldnt proceed.
BB's are great for passing on both factual 'scientifically proven' information, and opinion...The two are very different things though, and its up to the poster to make it clear which is which, to avoid confusion.
Something working in one situation or a handfull for that matter, doesnt make it 'fact' in all subsiquent cases. And results have to be quantified in full before any assumptions or claims can be made.
If we know a method works, then lets work on getting the 'best' from 'that' method...Lets not get into wars and start pulling apart other methods just to justify it.
Comparisons are great. but they have to be done with factual and 'accurate' information..not just the bits we 'want' to highlight, becouse 'every' method has some downsides...we cannot afford to let our ego's rule our typing hands to the degree we ignore those limitations at the expence of accuracy in the bigger picture.. If we do...then we do a disservice to the method and to anybody less knowledgable than ourselves who takes lead from our words..
Regards
(god, that was a bit deep for a Tuesday afternoon....I need a sleep now..
BB's are great for passing on both factual 'scientifically proven' information, and opinion...The two are very different things though, and its up to the poster to make it clear which is which, to avoid confusion.
Something working in one situation or a handfull for that matter, doesnt make it 'fact' in all subsiquent cases. And results have to be quantified in full before any assumptions or claims can be made.
If we know a method works, then lets work on getting the 'best' from 'that' method...Lets not get into wars and start pulling apart other methods just to justify it.
Comparisons are great. but they have to be done with factual and 'accurate' information..not just the bits we 'want' to highlight, becouse 'every' method has some downsides...we cannot afford to let our ego's rule our typing hands to the degree we ignore those limitations at the expence of accuracy in the bigger picture.. If we do...then we do a disservice to the method and to anybody less knowledgable than ourselves who takes lead from our words..
Regards
(god, that was a bit deep for a Tuesday afternoon....I need a sleep now..
- Location
- Southampton UK
:grouphug:
Its Christmas...lets all hug and make up...
(take note I said make up...not Make out..that would be just wrong..:tongue1:.)
Its Christmas...lets all hug and make up...
(take note I said make up...not Make out..that would be just wrong..:tongue1:.)
sharkbait69
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- Monmouth County NJ
Bahamas, july, 2005 sea foam all over the sand of paradise island. pissed my wife off, but i did not mind.
Cause you have not seen it does it mean it did not happen? Just a tree falling in the forest.
sharkbait69
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- Monmouth County NJ
just a question. Cause my post count is low, does that make me a newbie?
sharkbait69
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- Monmouth County NJ
Hey easy with the older guys and reefing for 30 years.
I resemble that remark. Well not yet 22 years and 350 days. Got my first saltwater tank on my 10 birthday with my mom.:tongue1:
sharkbait69
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- Monmouth County NJ
i'm sharkbait and i endorse this post:lol:
sharkbait, i did state that i could be wrong, and that was just my observations. i would also like to put another question out there. given the huge volume of ocean and the minimal beach contact, how effective is wave action skimming really on the worlds oceans? also, when the tide comes in will it then pick up the skimmate? i dont have the answers either way, and im wondering if someone has these answers or could point to a site that has researched this field.
- Location
- Franklin Lakes, NJ
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
