Mostly Live Rock questions for a newbie

[metalac]

Hey guys,

I'm new to reef aquariums. I spent some time in freshwaters, but now I've decided to take a big step and move to saltwater. Originally I was going to have a very elaborate filtering system and bunch of fake rocks and what not, but from everything I read it seems that live rock is a best biological filter and it provides plenty of diversity and it helps stabilize ph and all other water parameters.

I recently acquired a 55 gallon acrylic tank and I'm getting ready to set it up as soon as my aquarium stand arrives.

I'm thinking of getting the live rock from Aquatic Tech since their prices are VERY reasonable (cheapest LFS is aroud $7/lbs) and they provide airport to airport shipping which is much cheaper. Now here are some questions:

1.) Anyone used Aquatic Tech for live rock before? is the rock quality ok?
2.) What's the difference between Fiji and Pohnpei rock? is it all the same? should I try to mix both together?
3.) Opinions are split on scrub/don't scrub rock after it arives, some claim scrubbing it causes more damage than good, what's your take on it?
4.) Would 65lbs be sufficient for me or should I get some more?
5.) Should I get regular or live sand? Will aragonite sand from Home Depot work ok?
6.) Should I dump live rock in some higher salt concentration water for a minute to get rid of the unwanted critters?
7.) What is a good way to move water throughout the aquarium, I found bunch of resources on this, but nothing was extremely definitive, it just sort of listed options, but I'd like to hear what works best and why?

If you think that there are some other things that I should know please do tell.

Thanks.

 

[mr_X]

i never tried aquatech, but you can mix different types of rock together. the difference between fiji and pohnpei is where they were collected.
some rock is more porous than other rock, and i believe the best rock is lighter, more porous rock. i've never seen pohnpei rock in person, but if i was picking from that website, i think i like the looks of that uaniva rock :wink: unfortunately, most sponges and stuff will die during shipping.
i wouldn't bother scrubbing the rock unless there was alot of visible dead stuff on it...big clumps of rotting stuff isn't something i'd want in my tank.
65 pounds is fine.
regular aragonite sand is fine. wash it out very well and toss it in.
no, dumping the live rock in a higher salt concentration is not effective as far as i know. unwanted critters will probably come out of the rock if you were to dip it in fresh water.
a good way to move water? powerheads, drilling the tank for a closed loop(2 holes, one for intake and 1 for exhaust, powered by an external pump)

 

[metalac]

should i also have some powerheads to move the water around the live rock? or will sump inlet/outlet combination work fine?

 

[mr_X]

you will most certainly need more circulation than a sump return will provide in a 55 gallon tank. it's up to you what you want to use to move the water. powerheads will work fine. maxijets are good powerheads, hydor koralias are also a good bang for the buck.
if this is simply a fish only tank with live rock, the purpose of the extra circulation is to keep fish poop and uneaten food and such suspended in the water until it can be sucked out of the tank via the overflow and down to the skimmer. if this is to be a reef tank, the circulation is for what was mentioned above, but also because certain corals require a substantial amount of water current to thrive.

 

[metalac]

This will be a reef tank, and I do intend to have some corals later down the line when I get some decent lighting and what not. Is there any particular way i should put powerheads inside the aquarium? Is it more or less random or is there a particular way they should be aranged? Also what's the deal with wavemakers? Do they just reverse the flow of the powerheads or is there more to them? and do i even need one?

 

[mr_X]

wavemakers are like a powerstrip that randomly turns on and off powerheads to create a random current in the tank. there are simple ones and more complex ones, but they all basically create a random current-which is what we shoot for.
well, you want most, if not all of the tank to have current. and you want the most current where you will have the corals who like the strong current. as far as a particular way to place your powerheads, no, just arrange them, and re-arrange them, until you've got what you and your livestock is happy with. but the more area in your tank with good flow, the less crap will be on your live rock and sand bed.
you don't need a wavemaker, but we are trying to mimic the ocean as best as we can, and to have one brings you one step closer. i believe that once you have a wavemaker, and have used it for a while, you'll feel glad about your purchase.

 

[mr_X]

did you buy your protein skimmer yet? it's the most important component besides your tank and lighting. make sure you get a good quality skimmer that is rated for a much larger tank, and you'll be happy you did.

 

[Len]

1.) Anyone used Aquatic Tech for live rock before? is the rock quality ok?

I've never used them, but most vendors sell rocks from the same few collectors. Thus, the quality of the rocks does not differ much (if it's from the same origin). It comes down to service and price.

2.) What's the difference between Fiji and Pohnpei rock? is it all the same? should I try to mix both together?

Fiji and Pohnpei are different locations, and thus the rock will be made of different compositions and different life forms. Fiji has been the "staple" rock in our hobby for decades, but some of the newer, more exotic rocks offer interest alternatives. Mixing rocks can be done. I personally mix Marshalls with Fiji.

3.) Opinions are split on scrub/don't scrub rock after it arives, some claim scrubbing it causes more damage than good, what's your take on it?

Remove as much of the growths as possible, but do it gently. Don't scrub. Definitely remove anything that smells foul.

4.) Would 65lbs be sufficient for me or should I get some more?

65 lbs is okay, but it will look pretty sparse. About 100 lbs would fill out a tank nicely but give enough room for corals and fish to grow. This is a very subjective matter. Some people prefer less rocks, and others like lots of rocks.

5.) Should I get regular or live sand? Will aragonite sand from Home Depot work ok?

Aragonite sand works fine, including the playsand that Home Depot sells. Just make sure to clean it very well. Good quality life sand is the best IMO.

6.) Should I dump live rock in some higher salt concentration water for a minute to get rid of the unwanted critters?

I personally do not cause osmotic shock to the rock. It will harm good and bad life. It's also not a very good method to flush out undesirable critters. Alas, you will simply have to watch the tank for a few months. Luckily, not many bad pests get imported on rocks. You're more likely to get them from your LFS or mail order coral/fish purchase.

7.) What is a good way to move water throughout the aquarium, I found bunch of resources on this, but nothing was extremely definitive, it just sort of listed options, but I'd like to hear what works best and why?

The best goal is to aim for lots of water turnover but minimal water velocity. This is best done with propeller pumps that is available everywhere nowadays. If you dive in the ocean, you'll notice LOTS of water movement, but never at super rapid speeds like we see coming out of big pumps or powerheads. That is why prop pumps are a great alternative.

Hope that helps.

 

[metalac]

You guys are being a great help thanks a lot.

Mr_X I haven't got a protein skimmer yet, I'm still looking into sizes of sump and what not I could go with then I'll figure out what skimmer will fit it.

And as far as powerheads go how careful I have to be not to hurt some smaller criters, shrimp, snails, etc. Will the properler ones be gentle enough so that shrimp don't fly around the tank . Also how high should these powerheads be? or should I mix them up and put some high up in the tank and some down low?

Thanks.

 

[mr_X]

the shrimp and snails will be fine. remember, they live in the turbulent ocean, until we capture them for our own amusement. i have hydor koralias. they seem like a snail/shrimp/fish guillotine, but apparently, they are perfectly safe. they also disperse flow in a wide spray, instead of a targeted blast.

i think you should mix them up, but watch what the flow does...i mean...you don't want to blow all the sand to one side of the tank, but you don't want "dead zones" either.

and in my own personal opinion- you should choose a skimmer, and then find a sump to fit it, not the other way around :wink:

 

[Len]

Mix the powerhead locations so that you get good movement throughout the whole tank, including the surface of the water. The agitation provides good gas exchange.

 

[metalac]

and in my own personal opinion- you should choose a skimmer, and then find a sump to fit it, not the other way around :wink:

what do you recomend. I've been looking around but there is just TOO MUCH stuff out there, so I don't even know where to start.

 

[mr_X]

i like euro-reef, but they are expensive. ASM is also an excellent skimmer. octopus skimmers are supposed to be good too. if you are to have a 55 gallon tank, with a, maybe 20-30 gallon sump, i'd get a skimmer rated for 150 gallons, like the ASM g1X :wink:
it's a shame...i just sold one on ebay.

 

[metalac]

man these are pretty pricey. Is there any way to get something cheaper? And how soon after I introduce live rock should I put in the skimmer?

 

[mr_X]

i don't think itg would hurt anything to run it right away, however, you don't need it until you get livestock.
you can check ebay for used skimmers. that's where i sold mine. some guy stole my asm g1x for 130 bucks.

where are you located?

 

[metalac]

i don't think itg would hurt anything to run it right away, however, you don't need it until you get livestock.
you can check ebay for used skimmers. that's where i sold mine. some guy stole my asm g1x for 130 bucks.

where are you located?

i'm in Seattle. I've been looking out on craiglist and what not, but there is nothing on it that's exactly a steal. There are some pretty good OVERPOWERED units that usually retail for $400+, but as far as the skimmers that I need they are not that much cheaper than retail.

 

[mr_X]

there is nothing wrong with an overpowered unit. it won't "skim your tank to death", or anything like that. right now i use a skimmer rated for 450 gallons on my 185 gallon (total volume) system. i bought this skimmer in preparation for my bigger system though.
the only problem i see will be the juice that the big pump on the big skimmer will use. if you don't mind a few more cents on the electric bill, no worries :wink:

worst case scenario, when "that fish place" (http://www.800padutch.com/z/b_thatfishplace.htm) has thier next "terrific tuesday" sale, i'll let you know in advance (i'm on the mailing list), and you can buy any 1 item for 30% off, in store only.
i need to head out there and get some pumps for my new tank, so i can purchase a skimmer for you then and just ship it to you.
just a thought. that's how i got my asm g4x i got about 120 dollars off. no other store could even come close to 300 bucks for that unit :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Hey I'm in Seattle too. I have a AquaC Remora Pro with a Mag 5 pump. I have a 50 gallon, and this is supposed to be sufficient. The problem is I have predators in my tank, so I actually just got a EuroReef Skimmer. I don't know the model number but it's rated for 200 gallon, and it's a freaken monster. I got the skimmer, cpr overflow, and a 20 gallon tank for my sump for $220 from a local reefer. The skimmer alone is over $500 new.

You should probably verify with others, but depending on which livestock you'll have my AquaC might be sufficient for you and I'll give you a fair deal. I'll settle for $85 (without the pump), and I paid $220 +tax (including pump, which is about $50). It's only 2 months old too. $220 - $50 pump = 170. 170/2 = $85. I wasn't planning on selling it after I switch to the Euroreef here in a couple of weeks, but I can help out a local reefer...

If you're gonna have a pair of clowns, a couple reef safe wrasses then this skimmer should suffice. I got a eel and a lionfish after I got my AquaC and found out my skimmer won't handle their bioload. So I got my third skimmer and my tank's been running for only 4 months. lol. Don't make my mistake and just spend as much as you can on a good skimmer.

There is a website of local reefers here in the Seattle area if you're interested. I've been getting frags and equipment from local reefers and I'm saving tons! I'd like to offer less than $85, but I advise spending more and get the Octopus Mr X suggested. Great value. Before you decide on mine do consider what kind of fish you'll have because it may turn out you need a better skimmer. I'll pm you the link of local reefers here, but I think it's better if you try and find a bigger skimmer than mine.

It seems like price is a concern to you. Sometime down the road you'll have to make the decision if you want SPS corals or not. SPS corals requires metal halide, which can get quite spendy. I spent $700 on mine, but it can be done with half as much if you buy the kit and do it yourself. I had to get a chiller after upgrading to metal halides, and that was another $300. Something to think about...

 

[Anonymous]

i sent you the link, but I found the skimmer and it's information. http://www.exoticfish.com/details.cfm?c ... 0&id=42384

I don't know anything about it or whether if it will suit your setup, but for $250 new, $80 bucks aint bad for what that guy is offering. Also I can introduce you to a friend of mine, but he lives way out in Black Diamond. He's the one that sold me the skimmer and frags. Very generous man.

Craiglist is fine. I've seen some good deals in there before, but there is greater selection from the place I told you.

 

[mr_X]

get an asm g1x. 250 bucks. you don't need to buck up for the euro reef(besides, that es 5-2 skimmer is too small IMO). check ebay and craigslist. you'll find one.