• Why not take a moment to introduce yourself to our members?

martin808hil

Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hi,
Im just setting up my first salt water tank which will be a reef tank at the minute and have a few questions I need help on if anyone can sort us out............
1. Im currently filling my tank with RODI water from a kit that seems to take forever to fill a small storage tank.The salt Im going to be using is Instant Ocean and the mixing intructions state to use dechlorinated tap water and mix to a specific gravity.Is it just the same with RODI water ( keep adding salt untill the the sg is reached) or do I need to and some other additive to make the RODI water the same hardness as tap water then add the salt?
2. The tank is a 55g with a 20g sump. Im about to order 88 lbs ( 40 kilo ) of cured live rock ( does this sound excessive?) as recommended by the retailer.When The live rock is in place how long on average does it take before I can start adding fish?
3. My plan of inhabitants are 2 perc clowns , 1 yellow wrasse , 1 orchid dottyback , 3 cleaner shrimps , 2 peppermint shrimps , 1 starfish and a few mushrooms and softies stocked over a few months. Does this lot sound ok? Will I be able to add the clowns and cleaner shrimps in the first stocking?
4. What are you lot using for substrate? just standard coral sand or something else?
Thanks for all your help.
Please check latest post.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
1 - Mix to desired S.G. I would suggest around 1.026.

2 - That's not excessive at all. 55s are difficult to aquascape though because of the front to back depth (or lack thereof).

In my opinion don't worry about time until it's ready. It takes as long as it takes. There are too many variables to predict.

3 - You stocking list sounds great except for the Starfish. Hold off until you can learn more about starfish.

4 - I use Aragonite sand. Barebottom is becoming popular. Read through some of the debates on substrate and choose what makes sense for you.
 

snakamoto

Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
i got 110 lbs. of live rock in my 55Gal and i think it looks just fine! not doing to good with the new firends though. my firefish have been MIA for 4 days now and lost a clown too :(. my cycle took about 60 days to run through and stabalize.
 

Josh Weber

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
i agree on guy with basically everything. if you add all the live rock at once then check for amonia and nitrite with in a day or two. and yes, learn as much as you can about the starfish ad all of the other inverts. you can never know enough about this stuff. also i didn't see what kind of light you have. MH is always great, but i think a compact floresent would do good over your tank. the salt your using is fine, and your fish selection is good to. be very slow with stocking and maybe start out with a few chrimis to make sure your tank is ready. then once it is switch or add to your tank with the other fish, slowly. good luck
josh
 

martin808hil

Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hi,
The lighting Im using is a 4 x 39w t5 unit.I dont know if you have seen an earlier thread of mine but the standard output fittings have been replaced.
I thought live sand was just for use in a DSB system? A local retailer is selling the stuff by the kilo.What is it and what does it look like?
snakamoto I cant believe it took 60 days to cycle your tank are you using cured live rock?I thought using cured live rock ment you have a ready mature filter?
 

Josh Weber

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
hey' i'm not real familiar with that light. 156watts should be fine though. live sand is used in any aquarium with sand. however some reefs have done well with out a sand bed at all. i would highly recomend using live sand in your tank. the reason why we call it live sand is b/c it is already full of bacteria and micro organisms. if you are to use normal sand with your live rock all the living things like the bacteria and such would multiply onto your sand over time. this is the cycleing process. so when you use live sand and live rock, most of your tank is matured. and sometimes it takes a while for the bacteria to multiply, thus causeing a longer maturing process, like 60 days. when you use live sand it does not mature instantly, but much quicker. any kind of live sand should work, just put the live sand on top and with ina few days you can mix it up all you want. just ask your LFS and they should carry some.
josh
ps. using cured live rock is a ready mature biological filter, but that does not mean that it is enough to take on the weight of an entire tank. you must be patient with anything you use if you want to have a successful saltwater tank. keep us posted!
 

martin808hil

Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hi Josh,
Thanks for all advice.I will be using the live sand from my local retailer as a substrate mixed with some coral sand.I will be taking my time with the setup and understand that the live rock wont be able to hold a full tank of fish straight away.I will keep you all posted with pics of the setup in a coulpe of weeks when the live rock and sand should be in.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
1. SG should be around 1.025-1.026. You do not need to add antyhing to make it "hard". You are using IO, wich is known to be low on calcium, which wont matter now, but when you start going to coral or inverts, you will need to up the calcium, and as well more than likely the alkalinity, as IO is low on that as well. I suggest getting b-ionic and learning how to keep alk and calc in check (which relates to pH). Use this article to learn more:http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

2. The more LR the better. You cant have too much. LR is a biological filter. It is where most of your "living" organisms will reside, all of which will help with keeping parameters in check, break down ammonia and nitrites to nitrates, and provide food for many inhabitants. You can add fish, once you have gone through a cycle-ammonia elevates, goes to zero, nitrites elevate go to zero, and nitrate elevate, and go down to very low levels. Time is nonsense here, chemistry is everything. SOme tanks take a week, some 3, some 2 months. The longer you wait for it to stabilize the better.

3. DO NOT add a starfish for a year. At least. They require a huge amount of LR, VERY stable water parameters, and a tank that has enough food on the LR to graze on, which will ONLY come with time. They DO NOT eat algae or detrius. They live on encrusting sponges, some forms of algae that take a while to grow, and other things that we still dont understand. A star will starve to death in a new tank. I am speaking of linkia (like the orange or blue)
The exception is a brittle star, or to a lesser degree some serpent stars. They eat almost anything. But I would still wait on those for about 6 months.

4. I use Crushed coral. Hereis what I just wrote in another thread:The CC bed is not a problem. CC is fine, and the fallacy people perpetuate about it being difficult to care for is nonsense. All I ever had has been cc, as many of the people I know.

Evry few years, people say some bottom is better...deep sand beds were the end all be all a few years back, now they have fallen out of favor. Then shallow sand beds. Lately bare bottom is the way to go, but now people are discovering that they are finding the tank becomes too "clinical" to support any pods or other needed substrate creatures.

I have yet heard of anyone having a problem with cc. I suggest that because of its composition, it allows 1. pods and other substrate creatures to thrive unbothered by fish and inverts. 2. Because it is "porous" it does not create "dead zones" that when leached (like a dsb) creates a poisonous slurry in the water column. 3. It is easy to clean if need be with a vacuum, but I have noticed since I stopped vacuuming a year ago or so, i have thriving life in the form of pods, small brittle starfish, bristle worms, feather dusters (though they have been getting picked off by something lately) and so many other forms of life, that it does not have that "dead zone" look of say a dsb.

I will stick with cc for now on. It seems to work the best for a captive life cube.

5. One more thing I will add, is mixing up change out water. This was my biggest problem when I started, and was helped by Guy here that I was doing it wrong. I now hear all of the time from my LFS friend of mine, that people are having troubles with tanks that can be traced to improperly mixing water. Here is a step by step how to mix water in general:
Easiest way to get your alk steady is by also doing proper water changes....You will need:
-1 cheap powerhead...like a rio 800 or a smaller maxi jet
-1 cheap heater around 100-150 watt
-1 cheap air pump and stone (somewhat optional)
-1 refractometer if you can...(hydrometers should be outlawed)
-5 gal or more bucket for the mixing), another bucket at 5 gal to make it easier to dump in the tank or you can use powerhead.
-salt mix
-good source water-no tap water unless its been tested
-a notepad to track all of your tests

1. fill bucket of any size about half with the water, then add appropriate salt for that amount ( i fill my 5 gal about 3gal worth, then with the instant ocean, I add 1.5 cups of salt) while stirring very well. (Salinity at the rate IO gives you will be around 1.022, thats too low, but more later about that)
Only add the salt to the water, never add water to the salt.

2. Finish adding your water to the bucket, then add appropriate salt again while mixing. At the rate IO gives you (1/2 cup per gallon) your salinity wil be around 1.022. This is when I add about 1/2 cup more to the water in addition to what I've added, and in a 5 gal scenario, it comes out to 1.025, which is about where you want to be.

3. Add powerhead to circulate and airstone to oxygenate (airstone is optional, i like it though)

4. cover and let circulate for around 24 hrs. A couple hours before you will use the replacement water, add the heater. Test salinity after water gets to targeted temperature, which for most is around 80. But acceptable range is around 77-82 give or take, varying opinions from many people.

5. Test salinity. If this is good, I suggest testing this water for ph and alkalinity and calcium and magnesium. This way you know the shortcomings of the mix. DO NOT ADD ANYHING TO THE REPLACEMENT WATER TO ADJUST except salt. It may cause a preciptaion event, which i learned the hard way one day If salinity is too high or too low, either add a little more salt or just unsalted water to adjust. If you must do this, let sit for a little while longer and circulate. Test salinity again.

6. Ready for the change? What I do, is I dump half of the 5gal into another 5 gal bucket, just to make it easier to handle the weight while pouring in. So that's why I have 2. And if you ave purchased a 10 gal mixing bucket or bigger, you could siphon out the water into the 5 gal bucket. You could also use the powerhead (thanks knowse) to pump the water into your tank instead of dumping it in.

7. Drain appropriate amount of water from your tank. Replace with new water.

8. Wait a few hours or so, then test your tank water. Given what you may know is lacking in your replacement water, plus the test on your tank water after replacement, this will give you a good idea what is needed.
Now you can add your b-ionic alk and calcium if needed and any other additives to the tank. Best to wait though to add anythig about 24 hrs and test then. But always test tank water before you add anything, and anything you add, do it slowly. Better to adjust over time than to try and quick fix things.
 

Meloco14

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hi, you are getting great advice from the above posts. I will touch on a few things. First, if you don't have a good book already I would get one. They go into far more detail than we can in short posts. Completely understanding all that goes on in your tank is essential to keeping a successful tank long term. You are fine on the LR. I personally would have even more than that. Remember, LR is the key to your bio filtration, and is very important. It becomes even more important when you dont have a deep sand bed. Another thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is get a good skimmer. Too many of us have bought an inexpensive skimmer for our first tank only to realize we need a better one a few months down the road. For time, I will reiterate what Guy said. You can't go into this hobby expecting everything to be ready at a certain time. There are so many variables that go into preparing your tank that it would be impossible to give an accurrate estimate. However, I would plan on at least a month for the cycle, and then another month before any real livestock. I would not add the 2 percs and 3 shrimp at the same time. I would do the 2 percs one week, then wait 2 or 3 weeks, and then the 3 shrimp. Key to success is patience and stability. Your stocking list sounds great (though I dont know anything about the yellow wrasse, hopefully others here do). Since you are planning on having 2 perculas, I strongly recommend buying tank bred, which are readily available. Tank bred are not only more eco-friendly, but they are very hardy and more resiliant to adverse conditions and diseases than wild caught. This is great for a beginner who may experience a few kinks from time to time. Tank bred percs and ocellaris also are very used to human contact, and mine will come say hi to me when i'm around the tank, and they will pretty much eat out of my hands. They are like the puppy dogs of marine fishes. But again, dont plan on having your tank fully stocked for a long time, maybe 6 months, maybe more. And ditto to everything said about the starfish. Gretzky described a great way to make up your saltwater, which many people overlook. One thing I will stress is to spend the money and get a refractometer, or at least a glass hydrometer. Every swing arm hydrometer I've tested against my refractometer has been way off. And they aren't consistant; one hydrometer will read high, another low. If you are forced to use a plastic hydrometer remember that most are calibrated for 74 or 75 degree water and adjust accordingly. The substrate is a big topic. There are many choices, and every few years the trend changes. I would search this site for threads on the topic and try to make a decision that is best for you. Anyway, HTH, and good luck.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
ct,

You have taught me a few things about water changes that I did not know. Thanks for that!!!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
cvp7900":5atbj22m said:
ct,

You have taught me a few things about water changes that I did not know. Thanks for that!!!

No problem..I have to give credit..i learned a bit from Guy here, and the rest from other people I know in the hobby. I added bits here and there, but it IS mostly advice from others that I put together in one instructional.

Ever since I did wc's this way, I have found it is incerdibly simple to keep alk and calc in range. The problem with doing water changes immediately after mixing (which is what I used to do!) is that pH does not get a chance to stabilize, and alkalinity is usually off the charts. The "ionic balance" is way off, causing a shock to the inhabitants.

By waiting the minimum 24 hrs of circulation, you give the water/salt time to "stabilize" , adjust to the proper pH automatically as well as the alk.
 

martin808hil

Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thanks for all the advice off everyone.
I just added the salt to my tank last night and today the water is a bit cloudy.Things are looking good though and Im going to wait untill it clears and the tests are all ok before putting the LR in.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
martin808hil":36bbcr8z said:
Thanks for all the advice off everyone.
I just added the salt to my tank last night and today the water is a bit cloudy.Things are looking good though and Im going to wait untill it clears and the tests are all ok before putting the LR in.

Just make sure you never add salt to the tank directly again :wink:

Mix it seperately well, then add
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
martin808hil":1stb3xe2 said:
Thanks for all the advice off everyone.
I just added the salt to my tank last night and today the water is a bit cloudy.Things are looking good though and Im going to wait untill it clears and the tests are all ok before putting the LR in.

just caught that...what tests? The only thing you really can test is sg/salinity, pH, calcium etc...

You will not have the "biological" tests to use until you add life.
 

martin808hil

Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hi,
Thanks for looking again.
My problem is the cloudy water! I cant find much info on cloudy or milky water in the search of this site so Im just wondering what you think.
The day after I got my system running with just freshwater the water turned cloudy , I mixed the salt despite the cloudy water as I didnt see any harm with having no life in the tank yet. Anyway three days later and the water is still cloudy showing no signs of easing up.With the salinity and ph tests good would you add the live rock to see if that does the trick or would you sit it out and wait?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
martin808hil":3f1kh6o1 said:
Hi,
Thanks for looking again.
My problem is the cloudy water! I cant find much info on cloudy or milky water in the search of this site so Im just wondering what you think.
The day after I got my system running with just freshwater the water turned cloudy , I mixed the salt despite the cloudy water as I didnt see any harm with having no life in the tank yet. Anyway three days later and the water is still cloudy showing no signs of easing up.With the salinity and ph tests good would you add the live rock to see if that does the trick or would you sit it out and wait?

Make sure your powerheads arent pointing down into the substrate. Keep the flow to a minimum at the bottom...just enough to keep it moving but not to create a sandstorm. Keep powerheads pointed parallel to the bottom for now.

It can take a while for the cludiness to go away, especially with mixing salt into the tank as you did.

You could always get a cheap hang on back filter to help "strain" out any particulate. It could also be beneficial in the long run, as small particulate has a tendency to create a "clay" layer when using sand.

Do not add anything yet. Wait until the cloudiness goes away. It will be soon.
 

Sponsor Reefs

We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.

Click here to sponsor $10:


Top