Deep Sand Bed
- Thread starter JHOV2324
- Start date
There is a lot of evidence that it is impossible to keep an aquarium for the long run without the occasional re-design (which is debatable that's for sure since the biggest proponents of this theory are the DSB fans). What is your idea of a long run anyway?JHOV2324 said:
But "YES" I do agree with you that we should try and maximize our aquariums life without change for the longest period of time. That is why I personally don't have a DSB and why I keep a BB reef tank with all the responsibilities/requirements attached.
After attending nerac and hearing julian sprungs presentation he was speaking about old tank syndrom which i believe has to some what deal with what you said here:
MAJOR DSB CON:
DSB crash! because it boils down to this - after considerable time (years) the anaerobic/microaerophilic population of bacteria present at the bottom of the DSB push into the aerobic region of the DSB and begin to compete with the aerobes. Once this happens phosphate is released by anaerobic bacterial death as oxygen hits them and from the wake of two competing bacterial populations (anaerobes vs. aerobes) literally going at it for nutrients.
Alright my question now is if you dont mind responding is.... How do you rid of this problem? Continuiously annually add sand and stir up the sand bed or replace the sandbed parts of it annually?
MAJOR DSB CON:
DSB crash! because it boils down to this - after considerable time (years) the anaerobic/microaerophilic population of bacteria present at the bottom of the DSB push into the aerobic region of the DSB and begin to compete with the aerobes. Once this happens phosphate is released by anaerobic bacterial death as oxygen hits them and from the wake of two competing bacterial populations (anaerobes vs. aerobes) literally going at it for nutrients.
Alright my question now is if you dont mind responding is.... How do you rid of this problem? Continuiously annually add sand and stir up the sand bed or replace the sandbed parts of it annually?
Manually stirring up a DSB is fraught with disaster. You need the stratified layers for it to work successfully. Don't touch DSB's!aaron23 said:
Don't think in years, think in decades, because theorically a well designed DSB can last 10 years before you would see any potential problems.
- Location
- Ridgewood, Queens
How many inches is considered a DSB? I currently have about a 2-2 1/2 deep one.
Well if the DSB is remote, disconnect the water supply from the main tank, drain the remote DSB of water. Move the tank from its position, remove sand, hold your nose from the smell (depending), clean tank, replace old sand with new, put it back to where it originally was, fill with water, and finally connect the water flow to the main tank.
I guess you could leave a little of the old sand to mix with the new (1/2 cup), it wouldn't hurt and probably could seed the new sand with bacteria, however, in reality this probably isn't nessesary.
I guess you could leave a little of the old sand to mix with the new (1/2 cup), it wouldn't hurt and probably could seed the new sand with bacteria, however, in reality this probably isn't nessesary.
I hate getting involved in these conversations... A lot of flameage starts up on this topic. A major reason DSB's crash is because people treat it as plug and play. Set it and forget it is bad news for a DSB. You can't set it up and forget about it. The sand dissolves (increased buffer capacity in DSB). This takes real estate away from the anarobic bacteria (O2 gets further down). As the lower levels gain more and more O2, anarobic crashes. You have to replenish your sand at least every year. I add at least 10 to 20 pounds per year. This forces the aerobic back up due to lack of O2 and gives anarobic room.
Some also do too much. Manually stirring sand is a bad choice. You could cause much of you anarobic to crash very rapidly. A bunch of nassarius snails, sand sifting stars and a watchman goby will do plenty of stirring for you. High flow which causes a little bit of the sand to move around is also good. When I say a little, I really mean a little bit, not a full blown sand storm. I feel too many people are afraid of high flow in DSB tanks. When I first added my tunze 6100's, I kept them low. Around 30%. After a while, sand moved around and I was able to bring 1 to 80% and the other to 100%.
As for BB not being asthetically pleasing, I would have to disagree with that too. I've seen the BB's some guys on this site are running and you can't even see the bottom of the tank. If not covered by corals, they are purple from coralline.
Remote sand beds are effective. Even smaller ones. In order to get the most out of it, the surface area of the remote bed should be at least 75% of the surface area of the main display. Again, that is to get the most out of it. Smaller remote beds do work.
Personally, I like DSB's. Always been good to me. I will also add that I have never had one set up for more than 6 years due to upgrades. My current DSB on my 180 has been there for 2 years. I don't plan to have it up for more than 3 more years(I plan to get a new house in the next 3 years... if I upgrade on the house, I have to upgrade the reef) so I can't say from exerience that it can last decades. I think the big thing to keep in mind is that if you do go BB, the asthetic issue goes away pretty quickly, but you've also got to spend the money on the skimmer (I believe you would need a quality skimmer rated to approximately double your water volume... solbby, please correct me if I'm wrong) as well as all the bells and whistles to give you great water flow. That is not to say you shouldn't have those things in a DSB. I just feel the DSB is more forgiving. One last thing, I feel SSB's are useless. They are nothing more than a place for crap to accumulate and cause high nitrates. Just my 2 cents.
Some also do too much. Manually stirring sand is a bad choice. You could cause much of you anarobic to crash very rapidly. A bunch of nassarius snails, sand sifting stars and a watchman goby will do plenty of stirring for you. High flow which causes a little bit of the sand to move around is also good. When I say a little, I really mean a little bit, not a full blown sand storm. I feel too many people are afraid of high flow in DSB tanks. When I first added my tunze 6100's, I kept them low. Around 30%. After a while, sand moved around and I was able to bring 1 to 80% and the other to 100%.
As for BB not being asthetically pleasing, I would have to disagree with that too. I've seen the BB's some guys on this site are running and you can't even see the bottom of the tank. If not covered by corals, they are purple from coralline.
Remote sand beds are effective. Even smaller ones. In order to get the most out of it, the surface area of the remote bed should be at least 75% of the surface area of the main display. Again, that is to get the most out of it. Smaller remote beds do work.
Personally, I like DSB's. Always been good to me. I will also add that I have never had one set up for more than 6 years due to upgrades. My current DSB on my 180 has been there for 2 years. I don't plan to have it up for more than 3 more years(I plan to get a new house in the next 3 years... if I upgrade on the house, I have to upgrade the reef) so I can't say from exerience that it can last decades. I think the big thing to keep in mind is that if you do go BB, the asthetic issue goes away pretty quickly, but you've also got to spend the money on the skimmer (I believe you would need a quality skimmer rated to approximately double your water volume... solbby, please correct me if I'm wrong) as well as all the bells and whistles to give you great water flow. That is not to say you shouldn't have those things in a DSB. I just feel the DSB is more forgiving. One last thing, I feel SSB's are useless. They are nothing more than a place for crap to accumulate and cause high nitrates. Just my 2 cents.
- Location
- Philippines
but whAt does SMALL mean to you in regards to remotE SBs... what percentage of the main taNk is considered 'smaLL'
:wink1::scratchch:happysad:
:squid::question:
:wink1::scratchch:happysad:
:squid::question:Ink, 20 gallon long remote DSB will make a difference in nitrate on a 120, albeit a small difference.
75% is the rule of thumb. If you have a 55 display (foot print is 4 feet X 1 foot), a 30 gallon remote DSB (3 feet X 1 foot or 75%) would give you best results. Or take for example a DSB in the main display. Rock work should not take up more than 25% of the bed. Then you get creative to set in your rock work. BTW, I'm bad at math and these are just examples.
75% is the rule of thumb. If you have a 55 display (foot print is 4 feet X 1 foot), a 30 gallon remote DSB (3 feet X 1 foot or 75%) would give you best results. Or take for example a DSB in the main display. Rock work should not take up more than 25% of the bed. Then you get creative to set in your rock work. BTW, I'm bad at math and these are just examples.
- Location
- Philippines
:arg: i have a 95, so can i make d0 with a 30G remote DSB :bigeyes2::scratch:
what is the foot print of the 95. Length and width. figure 75% of that and you will get the results your looking for. Keep in mind, this "rule of thumb" was created for the types of tanks advised too keep reefs in. Tanks with larger footprints. I'm not referring to tall or extra tall tanks.
Ink, on a 95, even if it is not 75%, the 30 will reduce nitrates. Not to the level you would like to see, but they will stay lower than they would without. Most who complain about the lack of success with DSB's made modifications or didn't follow the original design or simply didn't replenish sand and most of all, lacked any patience to let the bed settle. DSB's have earned a bad name because of this. It is not set and forget. You can't just add sand and expect the nitrates to drop over night. It takes over 3 months for such a bed to settle.
- Location
- Flushing NY 11355
inkblue said::arg: i have a 95, so can i make d0 with a 30G remote DSB :bigeyes2::scratch:
I most home aquarium, DSB either remote or in-tank and Monaco system is about the surface area assuming the DSB is at correct depth.
I agreed on the 75% ratio, which is detail in the patent of Monaco system as well, fi you do not want to change every couple years.
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