The Deathly Hallows - ******SPOILERS*******
- Thread starter Dmitry
- Start date
- Location
- hells kitchen
This sucks. I had to scroll all down without looking at any of the posts.
I'm still re reading all the previous books before starting this one. Thank goodness for audiobooks! I'm on Goblets of Fire now, hopefully in two weks time this discussion is still active.
Steven
I'm still re reading all the previous books before starting this one. Thank goodness for audiobooks! I'm on Goblets of Fire now, hopefully in two weks time this discussion is still active.
Steven
- Location
- Upper East Side
I too thought that the Elder Wand thing was a little convoluted. I think we can assume with a regular wand, unless the wizard actually takes possession of it, the ward doesn't switch allegience.
Also convoluted was the reason why Harry could survive the Avada Kedavra curse a second time. If Harry's connection with Voldemort via his blood was the only thing keeping Harry alive, wouldn't killing Voldemort kill him too? Hrm.
Sad about Remus and Tonks but I figured out that would happen as soon as they made Harry the godfather. He has to raise Teddy the way that Sirius wasn't able to raise him. I also thought it was a nice symmetry that James, Sirius, Pettigrew and Lupin all died, as well as Snape. Sort of clears the way for the younger generation to really take over.
I loved that Neville dispatched one of the Horcruxes. And I loved the scenes with Neville's grandmother who was perhaps more formidable that even we realized.
Also convoluted was the reason why Harry could survive the Avada Kedavra curse a second time. If Harry's connection with Voldemort via his blood was the only thing keeping Harry alive, wouldn't killing Voldemort kill him too? Hrm.
Sad about Remus and Tonks but I figured out that would happen as soon as they made Harry the godfather. He has to raise Teddy the way that Sirius wasn't able to raise him. I also thought it was a nice symmetry that James, Sirius, Pettigrew and Lupin all died, as well as Snape. Sort of clears the way for the younger generation to really take over.
I loved that Neville dispatched one of the Horcruxes. And I loved the scenes with Neville's grandmother who was perhaps more formidable that even we realized.
Dumbledore was the master of the elder wand. Snape killed him but he can't be the true master of the wand because he didn't actually won the duel, Dumbledore died because it was staged. However, Draco disarmed Dumbledore so Draco is the true master of Elder Wand. However, Harry disarmed Draco from the escape so some how Harry became the owner of the elder wand. And Voldemolt couldn't kill Harry because wand won't kill his own master.
The whole wands switching allegiances thing is a bit out there. I think upon really close inspection it can't really hold up. Surely in the thousands of years of magic they would have realized that on occasion their wands switch masters? It's a bit odd, but I'm willing to just go along with it.
I assumed Voldemort's curse rebounded not only because of the wand but also because the spell that protected Harry as an infant was still in tact, in spite of what Voldemort thought.
Last week's Entertainment Weekly has an article in defense of the epilogue. It might have swayed me a bit. I suppose, perhaps, there is a poetic beauty to it.
I assumed Voldemort's curse rebounded not only because of the wand but also because the spell that protected Harry as an infant was still in tact, in spite of what Voldemort thought.
Last week's Entertainment Weekly has an article in defense of the epilogue. It might have swayed me a bit. I suppose, perhaps, there is a poetic beauty to it.
- Location
- NY
I think it's already time to re-read #7 :banghead:
That wand switching was definitely the most mixed up I've been in any of the books.
Dmitry, I could have sworn that any of the protective spells levied on Harry were immediately 'dispelled' when he turned 17.
I thought the epilogue was fine. I actually think she left plenty of openings for the next series
R
That wand switching was definitely the most mixed up I've been in any of the books.
Dmitry, I could have sworn that any of the protective spells levied on Harry were immediately 'dispelled' when he turned 17.
I thought the epilogue was fine. I actually think she left plenty of openings for the next series
R
- Location
- The Big City
In GOF when V used Harry blood to get his body back he picked up the protection from Lilly, thus he could never kill Harry with that protection in his blood.
The wand thing was very weak but it does work as Darco did disarm DD, which makes him the master of the wand. A problem I see with the Elder wand is since it wasn't working correctly for V it should never have been powerful enough to destroy the Horcruxes, especially since V did the spell at Harry.
JKR in recent interviews and when she fielded questions on-line has added to the epilogue, she pretty much filled in areas that were still open. It would have been better if she did it in the book though.
The wand thing was very weak but it does work as Darco did disarm DD, which makes him the master of the wand. A problem I see with the Elder wand is since it wasn't working correctly for V it should never have been powerful enough to destroy the Horcruxes, especially since V did the spell at Harry.
JKR in recent interviews and when she fielded questions on-line has added to the epilogue, she pretty much filled in areas that were still open. It would have been better if she did it in the book though.
V definately knew about the mastership of this wand. That's why he called Snape and he killed him. He thought that will make him the master of the wand without realizing that Snape isn't the master, he never actually killed D.
With or without becoming the master of the wand, it's still the powerful wand. That's why he was able to destroy holucrux on Harry. However, V couldn't killed Harry second time because want won't kill his own master. That's why it back fired.
- Location
- NY
Snape did kill DD. However, Draco disarmed DD of the elder wand first. So the ownership of the elder passed to Draco. When Snape killed DD that had no effect on the elder wand. Vold killing Snape accomplished nothing.....unbeknownst to him though.
R
Yeah, I forgot to mentioned bout Draco disarmed DD, and he became the owner before Snape. I said Snape didn't kill DD because even if he killed him, but it was DD's wish to die. So it actually Snape didn't kill him to win a duel? hmm, I don't even know what I am saying. But anyway, that's why I said Snape didn't kill DD. But yes, snape killed him but Draco disarmed DD before. Draco is master but Harry disarmed Draco, so Harry became the master of the wand, do I make sense here?
Voldemort was out of luck with that wand for two reasons: 1) Snape killed Dumbledore, but the Wand had by that point aligned itself with Draco, so it was too late. And 2) Snape didn't actually "best" Dumbledore, since the killing was pre-arranged. Voldemort knew neither of these things.
I agree that if Rowling had all these additional details about the characters she should have just added them to the Epilogue. Saying it in interviews doesn't really count. She has floated the idea of writing an encyclopaedia of sorts for the books, like the Sirmalion. I would suggest "Hogwarts: A History" instead, updated by Professors Binns and McGonagal (since Binns is a ghost and can't write himself) after Bathilda Bagshot's death. There they can mention all kinds of new details about Harry and friends.
Also, let's talk about Snape. He is by far the most complicated character in the books (though Rowling certainly complicated a lot of people in the last book.) Harry calls him the bravest man he ever knew. Do we agree with this? Certainly Snape's actions over all this time were heroic, but he was still a, for lack of a better term, bad man. His treatment of Harry (as well as Hermione and Ron, and anyone else not belonging to Slytherin) was reprehensible. Look at how he treated Neville, for example. What was Neville's sin as far as Snape was concerned? Snape's love and affection for Lily all these years don't entirely soften the blows. He died looking into Harry's eyes (which, let's remember, were exactly like his mother's.) Even though Snape despised James Potter and Harry was so much like his father, his - Snape's - affection for Harry's mother didn't give him all that much human decency. He was a jerk, in short. So was he the bravest man Harry ever knew? Of course, brave does not equal good.
I agree that if Rowling had all these additional details about the characters she should have just added them to the Epilogue. Saying it in interviews doesn't really count. She has floated the idea of writing an encyclopaedia of sorts for the books, like the Sirmalion. I would suggest "Hogwarts: A History" instead, updated by Professors Binns and McGonagal (since Binns is a ghost and can't write himself) after Bathilda Bagshot's death. There they can mention all kinds of new details about Harry and friends.
Also, let's talk about Snape. He is by far the most complicated character in the books (though Rowling certainly complicated a lot of people in the last book.) Harry calls him the bravest man he ever knew. Do we agree with this? Certainly Snape's actions over all this time were heroic, but he was still a, for lack of a better term, bad man. His treatment of Harry (as well as Hermione and Ron, and anyone else not belonging to Slytherin) was reprehensible. Look at how he treated Neville, for example. What was Neville's sin as far as Snape was concerned? Snape's love and affection for Lily all these years don't entirely soften the blows. He died looking into Harry's eyes (which, let's remember, were exactly like his mother's.) Even though Snape despised James Potter and Harry was so much like his father, his - Snape's - affection for Harry's mother didn't give him all that much human decency. He was a jerk, in short. So was he the bravest man Harry ever knew? Of course, brave does not equal good.
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- Location
- NY
Dmitry, very well organized and very well said. My feelings exactly. When my son and I finished the book, one of his first comments was, 'How do you feel about Snape now?". I told him I thought he was still the biggest a$$ in the series and that I still didn't like him. My son couldn't understand that. Dmitry, I hope you don't mind, I'm going to print out your response to give to him. :grouphug:
R
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