Tank wipeout overnight...

[nanoreefer22]

I set up an African Cichlid tank for a woman in my area and all was well for about 3 maybe 3.5 weeks. Last night she said the fish were fine and swimming around. I saw the fish last week sunday, did a water change and all was well. No sign of disease, etc. This morning she wakes up and all but 1 fish is dead. I think the culprit is heat, but I've never seen anything like this before. The majority of the fish died with their mouths open, most weren't floating.

Do you guys think it was the heat that knocked them out overnight? She said she could feel that it was really hot through the glass. I'd guess the tank got to upwards of 90 degrees.

-Kris

 

[jhale]

yes.

Kris at 90 degrees the O2 will be depleted very quickly.
With no way to replenish it fast enough the fish will use up what's
available then die :sad2:

 

[nanoreefer22]

Just what I thought . Thanks J.
-Kris

 

[KathyC]

Was she running an airline in the tank, or did she have an algae issue in there (unlikely in an African tank though).
They also commonly sink to the bottom, have yet to see one dead floating.
This was a new tank? Assuming properly cycled..did she test for ammonia or a PH swing (you'll also get the same open mouth with that and a PH swing is way more likely to kill africans than a slow rise in temp to 90)
Is the last living fish acting strangly? Swimming in circles or up & down quickly?

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

99.99% due to O2 depletion if their mouths are open AND their bodies rigid. Death due to pH usually have soft bodies.

When humidity is high, a slightly hotter day could be very dangerous to live stock that are energetic.

 

[nanoreefer22]

Was she running an airline in the tank, or did she have an algae issue in there (unlikely in an African tank though).
They also commonly sink to the bottom, have yet to see one dead floating.
This was a new tank? Assuming properly cycled..did she test for ammonia or a PH swing (you'll also get the same open mouth with that and a PH swing is way more likely to kill africans than a slow rise in temp to 90)
Is the last living fish acting strangly? Swimming in circles or up & down quickly?

The last fish seemed fine except for the fact that he was breathing heavily and sitting still in a cave he had dug out in the gravel. There was no airline going into the tank. Her apartment is scorching if her AC isn't on. Just standing in the room lookin at the tank is enough to make me start sweating and I don't sweat too easily.

I brought the fish home with me until I can tend to her issues in her tank. I would have taken care of it today, but I'm having a family get together tomorow and I'm all over the place.

Thanks All.
-Kris

 

[scarf_ace1981]

sorry to hear.

depending on # of fish in the tank the oxygen levels will decrease rapidly in hot water

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

There was no airline going into the tank. Her apartment is scorching if her AC isn't on.

Surface breakage is very important to an FW Fish Only system without an air line. If you are using a spray bar make sure it's as close to the top as possible so it can break the surface. If you are using a hangon filter try to make the fall above the water level to have more gas exchange chances. Since you can take the tank(I believe not just the fish) home, it should be a small system which you would not by any chance using a wet/ry filter. When using wet/dry, the aeration issue should not be a problem.

BTW why no one ask for water parameters. We need those numbers to analysis your case.

 

[KathyC]

I asked about ammonia & PH Wingo...
You can't run a healthy FW tank without additional oxygenation from an airpump, in addition to the oxygenation you get from the filter.
Was there a thermometer in there??

 

[nanoreefer22]

I asked about ammonia & PH Wingo...
You can't run a healthy FW tank without additional oxygenation from an airpump, in addition to the oxygenation you get from the filter.
Was there a thermometer in there??

I wasn't aware of that but I'll definately make that change. I have a bunch of spare air pumps I could use.

As for testing, I didn't today only because I thought it would be pointless. I figured if the fish died sometime last night, the water would be in some way fouled by the time I got there around 4PM this afternoon. In that case the results would make it look as though the fish died from water level imperfections. I took the test kit with me but decided against it. Guess that was my mistake.

Wing, their bodies were rigid and mouths were open.

Sorry bout my screw up :sad2:

-Kris

 

[fritz]

Africans will always float from their number #1 killer, bloat. This was obviously not that though.

African tanks IMO are best done with an undergravel filter powered by a MJ pointed towards the surface and to the opposite corner. No other filtration is necessary for Africans and this will take care of air exchange. Use crushed coral as a substrate as that will help keep the ph high. Tufa rock is also good to use as caves but regular NY rock will work just as fine.

This sounds to me like heat. Africans aren't this suddenly killed by pollutants unless she poured ammonia in the tank. A PH killer is also unlikely in this case.

Bigup

16 years of breeding Africans son!

 

[nanoreefer22]

Crushed coral is without a doubt the substrate i used. So i doubt it was a pH swing as well. I'll aim for more surface gas exchange when I'm over there on Sunday.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Africans will always float from their number #1 killer, bloat. This was obviously not that though.

We should use sinking food to lower chance of this condition. If you are brave enough, a small operation could save the fish in most cases. To me, the no. 1 killer is, in fighting when they start to breed.

African tanks IMO are best done with an undergravel filter powered by a MJ pointed towards the surface and to the opposite corner. No other filtration is necessary for Africans and this will take care of air exchange. Use crushed coral as a substrate as that will help keep the ph high. Tufa rock is also good to use as caves but regular NY rock will work just as fine.

Agreed , that's an easiest and very effective way of setting up for ciclids. Most of my setups are done the same way with a spray bar connected to the powerhead at the surface

 

[KathyC]

Since you don't know at what point the fish actually died, I don't think a determination can be made as to whether ther bodies were soft or rigid at the time.
A substrate of crushed coral will help keep the PH stable, but it needs to be 'set' at the proper level to start with.
Yes an airstone connected to an airline is the best way to guarantee enough oxygenation in the water.
I wouldn't use an ungravel filter in this day & age with the selection of filters we have available to us. Many Africans are diggers and an undergravel filter gathers too much crud to be effective, most especially for an inexperienced aquarist.. that this lady just might be.

You never told us what size tank this is, or how many fish were in..and what size they were. Was the tank cycled before the fish were added and for how long? Were they all added at once and were the parameters frequently checked?
What was the PH on Sunday? Were the other parameters correct?

Many Africans cannot eat off the substrate (due to the angle of their mouths) and require a floating or slowly sinking food.

Is there a filter on this tank? What kind?
And please get a thermometer in there!

I have mountains of FW filters, supplies, pumps...lmk if you need anything

 

[NYreefNoob]

african's

i kept african's for year's and always used a airstone stick, as well as a biowheel and canister. cichlads are one of the most durable fish there is. but you do need air exchange. i only did water change's everyother month. depending on which lake they are from they like the water a little more murky also

 

[Wingo LEDs]

You never told us what size tank this is, or how many fish were in..and what size they were. Was the tank cycled before the fish were added and for how long? Were they all added at once and were the parameters frequently checked?
What was the PH on Sunday? Were the other parameters correct?

Yeah where are the PARs? It's not fair for the FW fish if we don't treat them as careful as the SW world.

Many Africans cannot eat off the substrate (due to the angle of their mouths) and require a floating or slowly sinking food.

GOOD point. But I don't how, my cichlids seem to have learned how to eat vertically against the substrate. May be from other fish.

I have mountains of FW filters, supplies, pumps...lmk if you need anything

AHHAHAHAH