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Davidl919

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He was pardoned for his Enormous crime and just 2 weeks ago we went awol because they let Paris out to soon...
Paris Deserved all the time, don't get me wrong. But this guy deserved more than the 1.5 years they gave him and now he does no time.... for a crime that in comparison to Paris was like jadewalking to Armed robbery...

Your Thoughts?
 

Dmitry

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Technically he wasn't pardoned. His prison term was commutted to no time served. He doesn't have to go to prison, but he still stands guilty, has to pay a fine. However, personally I disagree with the decision, but am surprised Bush didn't go all the way and just pardon him. He certainly didn't not do it because he respects the jury's decision. He'll pardon him in his last night in office.
 

reefman

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if u think about it from the beginning, r u really surprised?
libby is the escape goat n unless the pres saves him, he would've provided some real evidence for that friz guy. libby knew that was the real trump card to hold. since its suppose to be legal n within the powers of the pres, there's nothing we can do about it.
 

Davidl919

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Technically he wasn't pardoned. His prison term was commutted to no time served. He doesn't have to go to prison, but he still stands guilty, has to pay a fine. However, personally I disagree with the decision, but am surprised Bush didn't go all the way and just pardon him. He certainly didn't not do it because he respects the jury's decision. He'll pardon him in his last night in office.

Your right His sentenced was commuted. What gets me about this crime is Let a regular joe schmo give up the identity of a cia operative and lie to a grand jury and he'd be lucky not too get excecuted or at least minimum 20yrs.
 

Dmitry

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You're not wrong. But the administration functions in an alternate universe of its own. I kind of wish to be around 200 years from now to see what history books say about this decade.
 

meschaefer

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Your right His sentenced was commuted. What gets me about this crime is Let a regular joe schmo give up the identity of a cia operative and lie to a grand jury and he'd be lucky not too get excecuted or at least minimum 20yrs.


He was convicted of neither of the above referenced crimes.
 

fritz

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I haven't paid enough attention to this story lately to comment on it but in case anyone is about to post "Rich people and politicians don't have to pay for crimes like we do" I invite you to come hang out in Brooklyn Criminal Court for the day. They are open to the public and if you have some time you'd be surprised what's "legal" in NYC.

Speaking of Brooklyn Criminal Court, we've had a politician and a few judges through there this year. They're all currently serving time for their crimes as a matter of fact.

I'll leave you with my all time favorite statistic:

92% of Americans think that Congress is full of fraud, criminals and liars however,
81% of Americans believe that theCongressmen from their State are doing a good job!

If we can fix the above statistic we'll have far fewer problems in our country.
 

grisha

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awesome statistics man
on libby...
didnt prez let him out to make sure that the guy wouldnt start talking about real stuff. ?
as little information as we have, i dont think anybody will argue that the whole thing was about someone got messed up at the middle of the game , things got loud and best way to calm it down was to had a little guy say .....guilty ...... done deal, media is happy - folks sip soda
 

Dmitry

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awesome statistics man
on libby...
didnt prez let him out to make sure that the guy wouldnt start talking about real stuff. ?
as little information as we have, i dont think anybody will argue that the whole thing was about someone got messed up at the middle of the game , things got loud and best way to calm it down was to had a little guy say .....guilty ...... done deal, media is happy - folks sip soda

You are right that Libby was likely given this second chance at a normal life to keep him from writing a book in his cell. He wasn't the real culprit, but he was and is covering up for one (or more). Why the real culprits weren't prosecuted is irrelevant - Libby did commit a crime. And from the articles I'm reading the sentence was perfectly in tune with what others get in similar situations - and what the current administration proudly insists on others should get. Today's article in the NYTimes lists 2 similar cases where the Justice Department and the administration threw the book at the defendants. But, Scooter gets off (and not because he's wealthy) - all this talk of his reputation being ruined is nonsense. He'll join a law-firm or a think-tank, he'll lecture and make several little fortunes. And why shouldn't he. I would! :dead1:
 

Wingo LEDs

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Obstruction of Justice is a serious crime and especially if this obstruction of justice will stop the investigation from knowing something probably involve nation security, personal security and political retaliation. See my signature, you know what's the real danger in this commutation. I always think the difference between a dictator and a democatic dictator is that the former use force to take control of a country and no one else in the country can object him while the latter is selected by the "people" of the country but he/she cannot be challenged by anyone nor even the law. What Bush did, make us loose ANY faith in the so call law. I undertsand the president has this right(written in our law) to commute but clearly he has no respect to the spirit of the law itself. BTW I think all other dictators(we called them) also have a law in their reign to allow them to do things that no one in their countries can challenge including death orders to their citizens. So what I want to say is that even though our president has this right by law but execising it in this serious matter is unethnical and not qualified enough to be our president.
 
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Wingo LEDs

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But the administration functions in an alternate universe of its own.

You should see how our vice president define his office-some journalists call it a dark hole or the fourth branch of our government.

I kind of wish to be around 200 years from now to see what history books say about this decade.

If you read news from other countries and talk to people from other countries including a lot of the western ones, you will know already.
 
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Chiefmcfuz

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Obstruction of Justice is a serious crime and especially if this obstruction of justice will stop the investigation from knowing something probably involve nation security, personal security and political retaliation. See my signature, you know what's the real danger in this commutation. I always think the difference between a dictator and a democatic dictator is that the former use force to take control of a country and no one else in the country can object him while the latter is selected by the "people" of the country but he/she cannot be challenged by anyone nor even the law. What Bush did, make us loose ANY faith in the so call law. I undertsand the president has this right(written in our law) to commute but clearly he has no respect to the spirit of the law itself. BTW I think all other dictators(we called them) also have a law in their reign to allow them to do things that no one in their countries can challenge including death orders to their citizens. So what I want to say is that even though our president has this right by law but execising it in this serious matter is unethnical and not qualified enough to be our president.


:scratch::spin: :splitspin: Huh?
 
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Chiefmcfuz

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Ok I have said it before and I will say it again. Politics is just legalized organized crime. That's it. They are all crooks and liars. Some worse than others. Rich people fund their campaigns so they get special treatment, some even get jobs. If you don't like what you see in government run for office and change things. If you lose or your candidate loses you don't have to be happy about it but you lost so shut up and suck it up and try again next election day. If you can't vote cause you aren't registered to vote you really need to shut up because that is your fault. I am sure President Whoever really cares about what we the people think especially if we the people don't have at least 5 or 6 million to donate to their election or their party. They are all corrupt they are all criminals and liars once you realize that you will feel better about yourself.

Lets face it Bush has done some good in his office along with the bad as all presidents have he didn't pardon this moron Libby, he just Commuted his sentence so the guy is still a criminal he just saved us a few tax dollars cause we don't have to clothe him and feed him and take care of him fir the next 30 years in prison.
 

Dmitry

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Ok I have said it before and I will say it again. Politics is just legalized organized crime. That's it. They are all crooks and liars. Some worse than others. Rich people fund their campaigns so they get special treatment, some even get jobs. If you don't like what you see in government run for office and change things. If you lose or your candidate loses you don't have to be happy about it but you lost so shut up and suck it up and try again next election day. If you can't vote cause you aren't registered to vote you really need to shut up because that is your fault. I am sure President Whoever really cares about what we the people think especially if we the people don't have at least 5 or 6 million to donate to their election or their party. They are all corrupt they are all criminals and liars once you realize that you will feel better about yourself.

Lets face it Bush has done some good in his office along with the bad as all presidents have he didn't pardon this moron Libby, he just Commuted his sentence so the guy is still a criminal he just saved us a few tax dollars cause we don't have to clothe him and feed him and take care of him fir the next 30 years in prison.

I, for one, accept that the President doesn't care what little ol' me thinks. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't be complaining - especially those who voted. If we all kept quiet - we wouldn't be living in a democracy (such as it is.)

Libby was not sentenced to 30 years in prison. And you're glossing over the point of it all; the fact that we just got saved some tax dollars is silly. There are about 160,000 people awaiting sentencing for a federal crime. Is Libby the one most worthy of a pardon? Here are a few quotes from the NY Times article written by Adam Liptak:

"...the Justice Department persuaded the court to affirm the 33-month sentence of a defendant whose case closely resembled that against Mr. Libby. The defendant, Victor A. Rita, was, like Mr. Libby, convicted of perjury, making false statements to federal agents and obstruction of justice.Mr. Rita has performed extensive government service, just as Mr. Libby has. Mr. Rita served in the armed forces for more than 25 years, receiving 35 commendations, awards and medals. Like Mr. Libby, Mr. Rita had no criminal history for purposes of the federal sentencing guidelines.

Mr. Rita?s perjury concerned what the court called ?a possible violation of a machine-gun registration law?;

When Mr. Rita argued that his 33-month sentence had failed to consider his history and circumstances adequately, the Justice Department strenuously disagreed."

Is this guy less worthy of a pardon than Libby? I was also reading about Mitt Romney, who defends Bush's decision. One case specifically mentioned in Massachussets was a guy who was convicted of grazing someone with a bb-gun as a minor. Now, serving in Iraq, this guy asked for a pardon so he could become a cop when he returns home. Romney very proudly refused. What's wrong with these pictures?
 
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Chiefmcfuz

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Blah blah blah, I am not glossing over anything I am making a point.

If you want to change something DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT RUN FOR OFFICE! Bitching about it will only do one thing, piss off the people around you, the corrupt politicians are still going to be in office and be billionares and we're going to be working class people without a say in the grand scheme of things because we aren't rich. I would like to see all criminals put in jail, keys thrown in the deepest lake, Hey escape from NY style is good too, but it's never going to happen and even if it did rich people wouldn't be subject to the same penalties as we the working class people would. He who has the gold makes the rules. Clinton pardoned people who shouldn't have been pardoned, so did Bush Sr, Regan, Carter ETC..... they are all criminals accept it, cause we choose them to lead our country. Rita is a nobody like the rest of us, Libby is friends with the president, OJ murdered 2 people and got off. Accept it or run for office those are the only 2 options that are worth anything.

I forgot to address one thing from one of the previous posts. If the rest of the world has such a bad opinion of America I feel we should change that. We should take our foreign policy scrap it, take all of our money that we send to all of these countries and keep it and take care of the people here who need it instead of people who hate us for giving it to them. If you don't like us then that should be acceptable to you. And while you're at it take the UN and tell it to get the :bunnies: out of America the lease is up, go to another country that will accept it like America accepts it.

Lets get back to reefing and let the Crooks get back to running the country.
 

Dmitry

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I see that you're making a point, but your point has no context. You're not responding to the specifics of the case and this discussion is about a very specific case and issue.

The only way one should complain about the government is by running for office? Otherwise people should shut up? :biglaugh:

Giving away lots of money (which US does, but is not the only country that does) should not give it a free pass to do whatever it pleases. Your point is absurd. Iran gives lots of money to certain countries, too - and we're not exactly willing to just let them do whatever they want. :tank: Your idea that the UN is the enemy and the problem...well, what can one say.
 
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Chiefmcfuz

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Again blah blah blah !

None of our opinions matter it's plain and simple. No matter what you type, no matter where you march it means nothing.
 

Dmitry

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Again blah blah blah !

None of our opinions matter it's plain and simple. No matter what you type, no matter where you march it means nothing.

Our opinions don't matter in the greater scheme of things, you are correct. They don't matter on any and every subject. Why do we have this board? Any board? Why do we bother leaving the house? If we don't say anything at all because it's just "blah blah blah" - what's the difference between living under Bush, Putin, or Hussein? Personally I think there's something to said for "I think, therefore I am." :idea: Everyone is free to a mindless zombie, but I choose not to.
 
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Wingo LEDs

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We should take our foreign policy scrap it, take all of our money that we send to all of these countries and keep it and take care of the people here who need it

STRONGLY Agreed

instead of people who hate us for giving it to them.

Many people who hate us are not receiving money or other forms of aids from us

And while you're at it take the UN and tell it to get the :bunnies: out of America the lease is up, go to another country that will accept it like America accepts it.

This will be hard to do because we also have our people and interests in the UN nations and other countries. For example, we recently need the missile bases in some former USSR infuenced countries.

Lets get back to reefing

Yup

and let the Crooks get back to running the country.

Naah, I still have some time left to do something about them even though my efforts may be of little effect
 
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jgiordano

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Although I hate to bring politics to a hobby board; the only crime here is the one AGAINST Libby. The FBI knew that the leaker was Dick Armitage BEFORE the special prosecutor even was appointed. THIS IS A FACT AND NOT RIGHT WING FAVORITISM.

So let me ask if a crime is committed and and the person is caught. Should people not involved start being questioned? Should people with no relevance to the investigation be questioned?

That would be like the son of sam being CAUGHT and charging someone else because they couldn't provide an alibi.

I know that people hate cheney and bush but in this case nothing had to do with cheney.
 
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