New tank problem

[Dr_Tang]

Hey everybody, ill apologize in advanced if i sound like a newb....but after months of research, i have finally decided to try and make a saltwater tank. I am aware that i probably shoulda started with a 30 gallon or so, but i dont have the space for that right now...so ive got a 12 gallon nano cube. I started the tank last sunday (the 15th). I added play sand, the water/salt mixtures and got the temperature and salinity right. I purchased alittle more than 7 pounds of liverock on tuesday, added 1 yellow tail damsel and 1 blue/green chromie on wednesday...i expected the nitrogen cycle to start the next day, but nothing happened. So on saturday (yesterday) i added about 4 more pounds of liverock...still no ammonia spike! Ive also been overfeeding the damsels to try and get it going, but nothing so far. I realize that it can take months to acclimate a tank, and many of you will probably just tell me to be patient....but i feel like im doing something wrong here. So please, tell me how you guys get your tanks started so fast? I have been considering some sort of bacteria product, but they are pricey and i would rather not purchase one if i could do something else.

oh yeah, and the 2nd or 3rd day after adding the first 7 pounds of liverock, there was a fine cover of brown algae ontop of the liverock/sand....anybody know whats going on?

 

[Anonymous]

Patience...All i can say is patience..the brown stuff is a diatom build up..It will subside when the nutrients expire. That is if you're using RO/DI as top off..You dont sound like you're doing anything wrong.. You really havent done anything yet..You may regret adding that damsel though.. They get rather aggressive..You didnt mention what test kits you are using to measure your ammonia and so forth...It is possible it is a bad test kit..

 

[smontanus]

Ditto what Lord Nikon says. I just finished going through the same thing. The temptation to start throwing things in the tank is almost overwhelming. Just wait it out it will cycle. You didn't really even need to add the fish, watch them close when the ammonia starts climbing and don't waist time scrubbing the diatoms out, they will pass and be a good indicator of the tank condition.

 

[Anonymous]

If your live rock was already cured and purchased locally then it might be enough filtration to consume all of the ammonia the fish produce. If you find that ammonia never coes up then the tank won't need to cycle, don't try to force it, there's no need. The tank will need to mature and stabilize for weeks though before you can add anything delicate.

Don't add a bacteria product. You don't need it and it could cause problems down the road.

 

[Dr_Tang]

You didnt mention what test kits you are using to measure your ammonia and so forth...

im using the saltwater master liquid test kit from aquarium pharmaceuticals, im not quite sure how good of a product this is....but it seems accurate?

f your live rock was already cured and purchased locally then it might be enough filtration to consume all of the ammonia the fish produce. If you find that ammonia never coes up then the tank won't need to cycle, don't try to force it, there's no need. The tank will need to mature and stabilize for weeks though before you can add anything delicate.

yeah i thought of that too, so if nothing happens in the next week or 2 it would be ok to add stuff?

 

[Anonymous]

I use the same kit you do Dr Tang..Not the greatest kit in the world but its ok..If i had the money id invest in salifert test kits...

 

[Anonymous]

You didnt mention what test kits you are using to measure your ammonia and so forth...

im using the saltwater master liquid test kit from aquarium pharmaceuticals, im not quite sure how good of a product this is....but it seems accurate?

f your live rock was already cured and purchased locally then it might be enough filtration to consume all of the ammonia the fish produce. If you find that ammonia never goes up then the tank won't need to cycle, don't try to force it, there's no need. The tank will need to mature and stabilize for weeks though before you can add anything delicate.

yeah i thought of that too, so if nothing happens in the next week or 2 it would be ok to add stuff?

What are you wanting to add? You're fully stocked on fish already. You could try mushroom coral but anything more delicate should wait for a more mature tank: 4 - 6 more weeks IMO.

 

[Dr_Tang]

i was thinking like snails, cleaner shrimp, firefish goby, sebae anemone? perhaps remove the damsels and add 2 false percs? but yeah, i wouldent be able to add any of that stuff till after nitrogen cycle.... :?

 

[Dr_Tang]

this is also the second yellow tail damsel thats been in there... the first died the next day after i got him, so is it possible that there was a slight ammonia spike and then it cycled very quickly?

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, it's possible but other reasons for death are more likely like PH shock. How did you acclimate the fish?

Removing the Damsels and adding Percula Clownfish (also Damsels) would be just fine. A 12 gallon is right on the fence for being big enough long term for Ocellaris IMO. It can be done but everything else needs to be in A+ shape. The Firefish should be OK after the tank matures more. They jump so keep that in mind.

Skip the Sebae Anemone, it's not going to work for long in a 12 gallon tank.

A pair of any species of Cleaner Shrimp will be good, again, let the tank mature some more.

 

[Dr_Tang]

How did you acclimate the fish?

floated for a half an hour...

so if not sebae, what kind of anemone would be hardy/relatively cheap/and the ocellarius would go into that i could get? maybe some sort of carpet anemone?

also temperature? it goes from about 78 in the mornings to about 82 at night right before i turn off the lights...is that bad? should i be keeping the water warmer to about 82-85?? i also leave the lights on 12 hours a day.

 

[Anonymous]

Try drip acclimation for all of your reef animals. It works very well. I will gladly provide instructions if you would like.

Stichodactyla tapetum is the only Carpet Anemone suitable for a 12 gallon tank; unfortunately Clownfish have no use for them.

Please skip attempting an Anemone, at least until you get a couple years of experience under your belt. They are not as easy to keep as it would appear, especially in a nano tank.

Clownfish do not require a host but it is entertaining to watch. I use Green Hairy Mushrooms in my Clownfish breeding tanks and they are very easy to keep.

 

[Dr_Tang]

yeah ive had to drip acclimate some freshwater fish before...so ill do that from now on to acclimate

great, thanks for all the info...so if i were to add the clowns in the next couple days, they would be ok in their new environment?

 

[Anonymous]

As long as the other two are not there when you add the Clowns it will probably be OK.

It would be a lot safer to wait and find out if the Ammonia is going to get to a concentration where the existing bacteria can no longer keep up. I don't think that's going to happen at this point but it is still possible.

Just so you know for the future, there's no need to cycle with fish. Usually Live rock alone is sufficient and feeding the empty tank for a couple of weeks after the cycle will prepare the environment for a fish.

 

[Dr_Tang]

Just so you know for the future, there's no need to cycle with fish. Usually Live rock alone is sufficient and feeding the empty tank for a couple of weeks after the cycle will prepare the environment for a fish.

yeah, i thought by adding the damsels that it would speed things up...I suppose it did?

 

[Anonymous]

Not really, in this case it looks like you lucked out. Normally it really stresses the fish, sometimes to death. There really is no speeding up a cycle. It happens when it happens. It's fairly predictable but every new setup is unique.

 

[Anonymous]

Dr. Tang,

The build off forum http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewforum.p ... 11c2a9552d would be a great place to learn. Every one is doing 20g or less in tank volume. There are first time reefers as well as more experienced reefers doing tanks there. You can read all about different problems that show up as well as disasters and successes. It's a great way to learn when to add livestock, about different types of filtration and lighting.

Please take you time and have patience. You don't have enough lighting for an anenome and clowns don't really need them anyway. You were lucky you only lost one fish, you could have lost them all. Good luck with your new tank and please take your time. You came to the right place to ask questions and learn. Good on ya

 

[Dr_Tang]

yeah, ive been looking at the nano build offs since last month and it has been very informative.

I have been convinced to go with hairy mushrooms instead of an anemone, but what exactly do anemones require inorder to stay alive? i realize they need High light, but does that mean atleast 100watts? Thats probably another newb question, but im just so full of questions and i wanna learn. Thank you all for the help, especially Guy.

 

[Anonymous]

Not necessarily 100W..Its gonna depend on tank depth..in your twelve gallon you may need a couple of PC bulbs..seeing how its a Nano cube, retro fit wont be as easy..You could always remove the hood and do a DIY MH set up or VHO..Yeah it costs more but then you have alot more flexibility on what you can keep...

 

[Dr_Tang]

lol yeah, im definitly staying away from anemones for a long time...anyways, today i went to the local aquarium store and picked up some nice orange spotted mushrooms...also got a small pumping xenia, couldent resist for only 10 bucks....