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Non Fish Reef Tank
- Thread starter USMC81
- Start date
I have some experience with this approach. All of my reefs are fishless, as this is the only way to eliminate bioload and equipment hassle in pico reefs (less than 3g).
It is very true that feeding a system provides nearly all essential nutrients in terms of protein and vitamin availability for the hardier corals. Stocking selection will affect selective nutrient uptake (such as the notable Ia fixation in xenia) and mineral depletion (stony coral calcium/alk demand). Copepod numbers are easily maintained in a non-predated and well-fed system, after all what else are fish doing for us (nutrient wise) other than processing the food we add. You would be suprised what a healthy copepod population can consume, this is sufficient to keep suspended particles/compounds available for hardy reef organisms.
Were it not for copepods and reef insects, this feeding regimen would not work in a nano and it would soon be ridden with bacteria and algae. Non-reduced food particles are substrate for bacteria, which will increase oxygen demand in a nano threefold--> quickly smothering everything aerobic. Copepods compete for detrital matter, keeping bacteria and even oxygen demand in check in the balanced nano reef.
I like to use a variety of scavenging inverts as well, so I can still have motion in the fishless aquascape. These guys require food input like the fish, and excrete similar metabolic compounds that can benefit coral in small amounts. The boxer crab Lybia Tessellata is the hardiest crab and nearly the best colored Ive ever seen, one small juvenile survived a temp spike that killed every coral in my system. Banded coral shrimp are nice I think.
My theory is that we don't have to keep fish with corals to have an invert-focused tank. The compounds supplied by fish presence are also generated by organisms on roughly equal trophic levels, so the key to a CO (coral-only) system is not adding corals before copepod populations are up and running.
Brandon M.
It is very true that feeding a system provides nearly all essential nutrients in terms of protein and vitamin availability for the hardier corals. Stocking selection will affect selective nutrient uptake (such as the notable Ia fixation in xenia) and mineral depletion (stony coral calcium/alk demand). Copepod numbers are easily maintained in a non-predated and well-fed system, after all what else are fish doing for us (nutrient wise) other than processing the food we add. You would be suprised what a healthy copepod population can consume, this is sufficient to keep suspended particles/compounds available for hardy reef organisms.
Were it not for copepods and reef insects, this feeding regimen would not work in a nano and it would soon be ridden with bacteria and algae. Non-reduced food particles are substrate for bacteria, which will increase oxygen demand in a nano threefold--> quickly smothering everything aerobic. Copepods compete for detrital matter, keeping bacteria and even oxygen demand in check in the balanced nano reef.
I like to use a variety of scavenging inverts as well, so I can still have motion in the fishless aquascape. These guys require food input like the fish, and excrete similar metabolic compounds that can benefit coral in small amounts. The boxer crab Lybia Tessellata is the hardiest crab and nearly the best colored Ive ever seen, one small juvenile survived a temp spike that killed every coral in my system. Banded coral shrimp are nice I think.
My theory is that we don't have to keep fish with corals to have an invert-focused tank. The compounds supplied by fish presence are also generated by organisms on roughly equal trophic levels, so the key to a CO (coral-only) system is not adding corals before copepod populations are up and running.
Brandon M.
Brandon-
So I had a fishless tank for 2 months, with a LARGE copepod population and was feeding everyday and everything was perfect.
After getting my LFS to drop in pellet food and watching a "mandarin goby" (i certainly don't know the scientific name) eat the pellet food for two days running, i brought him home to my 10gal nano.
was this a mistake?
the mandarin is eating the formula 1 pellets and the bloodworms that i feed, but i don't see nearly the copepods i did before i got him. should i pull him out (huge amount of work)?
steve
So I had a fishless tank for 2 months, with a LARGE copepod population and was feeding everyday and everything was perfect.
After getting my LFS to drop in pellet food and watching a "mandarin goby" (i certainly don't know the scientific name) eat the pellet food for two days running, i brought him home to my 10gal nano.
was this a mistake?
the mandarin is eating the formula 1 pellets and the bloodworms that i feed, but i don't see nearly the copepods i did before i got him. should i pull him out (huge amount of work)?
steve
Nah. Leave him in there.
One of the big problems with mandarins* is diet. Naturally, they live on pods. Most small tanks can't produce enough pods to sustain a mandarin. However, since yours feeds on pellets, you don't have to worry. It'll be okay.
I have an algea blenny that has DECIMATED the pod production in my tank. If I see one or two pods a month I'm supprised. and the damn thing doesn't do jack for the algea I have growing.
*Pterosynchriopus picturatus = spotted mandarin
Pterosynchriopus splendidus= psycodellic mandarin.
B
One of the big problems with mandarins* is diet. Naturally, they live on pods. Most small tanks can't produce enough pods to sustain a mandarin. However, since yours feeds on pellets, you don't have to worry. It'll be okay.
I have an algea blenny that has DECIMATED the pod production in my tank. If I see one or two pods a month I'm supprised. and the damn thing doesn't do jack for the algea I have growing.
*Pterosynchriopus picturatus = spotted mandarin
Pterosynchriopus splendidus= psycodellic mandarin.
B
I agree with that too Bingo. I never argue over the use of mandarins in smaller systems if you happen to have an individual that willingly feeds outside the normal boundaries of micropredation. Heck, Ill bet a food pellet outnutrifies a pod anyday, even a gut-loaded one. JMO
i was under the impression that mandarins ned large tank with a lot of live rock in order to provide enough food for it because they won't survive on prepared foods? i have never heard of a mandarine that will eat pellets...well it's cool that he does, gives the rest of us nano peeps some hope...
As I understand it, they may eat the prepared foods, but, like ribbon eels, often still do not fare well. The going theory is that prepared foods don't provide nutritional needs. The most awesomest mandarin I ever did see lives in the only true reef display at the Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific. I believe it's about 5,000gals. That is one sweet reef display! They even have a remotely controlled video camera inside the tank so with a video monitor so you can zero in for closeups on the stuff growing in there. Let the coolness ensue.
"As I understand it, they may eat the prepared foods, but, like ribbon eels, often still do not fare well. The going theory is that prepared foods don't provide nutritional needs."
This is what I've heard as well. I've said it before, the only old mandarins (over 2 years in captivity) I've seen have been in large (100g+) mature tanks with lots of live rock, and the mandarin is almost never directly fed.
I think your best chance of success will be had by adding a refugium stocked with an amphipod kit, if you don't have one already, and feeding the mandarin frequently. Try an offer a wide variety of different brands of pellets.
This is what I've heard as well. I've said it before, the only old mandarins (over 2 years in captivity) I've seen have been in large (100g+) mature tanks with lots of live rock, and the mandarin is almost never directly fed.
I think your best chance of success will be had by adding a refugium stocked with an amphipod kit, if you don't have one already, and feeding the mandarin frequently. Try an offer a wide variety of different brands of pellets.
The mandarin REALLY takes to blood worms - actively chasing them as they float around the tank. I'm hard pressed to believe that copepods contain lots of nutrients compared to formula one or bloodworms.
any other frozen "real" foods aside from blood worms anyone might suggest?
thanks,
steve
any other frozen "real" foods aside from blood worms anyone might suggest?
thanks,
steve
You might try frozen mysis as well. I don't know if they'd be able to catch them, but newly hatched (less than 12 hours old) Artemia nauplii are a pretty nutritious food as well. Scott Michael suggests trying "vitamin enriched live brine shrimp and live black worms"
Simply getting them to eat prepared foods is often times not enough. Mandarins forage all day long, and would be best fed 3-4 times a day, if not more.
" I'm hard pressed to believe that copepods contain lots of nutrients compared to formula one or bloodworms." It's hard for me to believe as well, but I've seen or heard of many a mandarin that dies of starvation even after accepting these types of foods. Copepods and other small crustaceans are their natural food.
Simply getting them to eat prepared foods is often times not enough. Mandarins forage all day long, and would be best fed 3-4 times a day, if not more.
" I'm hard pressed to believe that copepods contain lots of nutrients compared to formula one or bloodworms." It's hard for me to believe as well, but I've seen or heard of many a mandarin that dies of starvation even after accepting these types of foods. Copepods and other small crustaceans are their natural food.
Like i've talked about before... I personally have one in my tank. She is approximately 1.5 years old, over 8 months in my tank... raised by a local breeder and accepts flake, pellet, brine (live/dead), as well as an assortment of other food items. Getting these fish to eat prepared or dead food is the hardest part. However, as I have put my info in a post before my mandarin is quite fat and has adjusted to the times I feed the tank. I currently have her in a 25 gal, which she's been in for the entire time, with 3 other fish. I do have a nice amount of copepod stock in my tank because she is kept pretty full.
Thom
Thom
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