How many fish in a ....?

[daysleeper]

Hi,

Newbie here and really enjoying the forum, pictures etc.!
I'm hoping someone can provide some advice about a fish combination that we are considering.

Right now, we have an Eclipse 6 with an orchid dottyback, peppermint shrimp, emerald crab, 2 astrea snails, 2 nassa snails, and 2 small cerith snails. Everything is going good -- so far anyway :wink: .

But of course, I want to add another fish :roll: so we are going to upgrade to a larger tank. The fish I want to add is a yellow clown goby.

My questions then are:
Are the orchid and the goby compatible in any size tank?
And, if so, what is the minimum size tank to allow this?

After much deliberation we have come down to a choice between the JBJ 12 gallon nano cube, or going "crazy" and getting a 30 gallon flat back hex clarity plus acrylic. Quite a difference, yes? The final decision will in part be based on the responses to this post. If 12 gallons is not enough space for these two small fish, then we shall go to the "medium" (?) sized reef. I would like to stay as small as possible, but want the critters to be happy and healthy!

Thanks much for any feedback!!

 

[UnderGrad]

Wow! You guys are shooting for the fancy upgrades - they are both excellent choices IMO. However, if you are a true reefer you're just going to have to face facts and go with the larger tank so you don't have to upgrade again when you want to put in yet another fish :wink: ! I've never kept an orchid dottyback so I can't really offer you any advice on them (Matt Wandell I'm sure will have plenty to share with you about em), but my fiance does keep two clown gobies in our 65g and they seem to get along with just about anything except each other. How is your rock arranged and what kind of corals do you keep? And how about some pics? I'm sure everyone here would like a glimpse of what you've got.

-AM-

Oh yeah, almost forgot, welcome to the Nano forum!

 

[daysleeper]

hehe thanks for the welcome

I will try to post a link to our pics, see if it turns out or not.... however, they are boring! As we have NO corals yet
Just the rock, sand, one fish, and the other critters.

We are totally new to the hobby and want to build up slow. But I have BIG plans hehe .... which is why your post made me laugh!
In the back of my head I think "hmmmm will we just want to go bigger than the 12 in a few months?"
I'm *trying* to stay small, but... our weekly visits to the LFS leave me dreaming of large reefs and extensive corals.

Right now have about 8 lbs of live rock, not sure how much live sand.
We had a royal gramma originally, but he didn't fare well. The fridmani has done great, happy to say!
One of the LFS said they were too aggressive but, he hasn't bothered anyone so far.

For corals, planning on a xenia to start, and would like a pink-tipped (?) anemone but have been scared that they will be too difficult to keep.
(Also worried that the shrimp will eat at them) We need to do a lot more reading/research about coral care.

We come here, see pictures, and get "the bug"! *** Must have blue starfish.... must have (insert pink/purple coral name here) ***

One of the LFS has the nano cube for $99, which seems reasonable. Although it limits future acquisitions, another reason to stay small is to keep our overall expenditures down in this uncertain economy. I think the first thing we learned is, this is not a cheap hobby! It amazes me how much can be spent on such a tiny tank!

Any and all advice/commentary is welcome. If you note any spots we can improve, please feel free to point it out. Thanks for the reply ^.^

http://photos.jimburke.org/

 

[Anonymous]

Again, welcome to reefs.org!

This is awesome, I just happen to have a friend with that unique combination of fish. He has a pair of orchid dottys and a very tiny (small enough to fit in the dotty's mouth) yellow clown goby in an 80 gallon tank. The orchids don't even look twice at the goby. He used to have several of the gobies, but the biggest one apparently killed the others. From what he tells me, they are pretty aggressive towards their own kind. I can't say for sure this combo will work in that small of a tank, but it worked for him.

I think your philosophy so far is a good one....research, research, research, and then do some more research. You can never learn enough about these animals and the best way to keep them.

Matt

 

[Ducman996]

Excelant pictures.....what is your secret? I can never get mine to look that clear. Anyway keep up the good work.

 

[kparton]

I had an orchid dottyback in my old tank and he left everyone else alone.

The person at the store was probably commenting more on dottybacks as a whole. most of them are quite aggressive and will bother any size fish. The Orchid (fridmani) is the least aggressive and many of them (from what I've read) show almost no aggression at all.

 

[Anonymous]

The dottybacks do show some interspecific aggression, but it tends to be more conspecific, as well as towards those that are very similar (for instance, bicolor towards royal gramma). I would expect it to leave the goby alone, but I wouldn't mix two gobies together, unless they are very dissimilar species (for instance, you could add one or two neon gobies).

Also, the orchids won't bother invertebrates, unless they're small enough to make a tasty treat, however, that's pretty much the golden rule of fish anyway, so that's not exactly news anyway, right?

I will suggest that, for now, you stay away from anemones, especially in a nano that you plan on housing other sessile invertebrates in. There are others with differing opinions, but no one can argue that anemones can and often do move around. Also, of the inverts we can keep, they are among the most difficult. However, you can certainly start off with corallimorphs such as mushrooms, and Sarcophytons, and even a clam such as Tridacna derasa would be very easy to keep, not requiring a great deal of specialized lighting (such as metal halide). Be aware that Xenia, if happy, can quickly take over a system, and stink when ya touch 'em!

 

[Anonymous]

Very good advice as always, SM.

The very few dottybacks I've kept (P. aldaebrensis, P. paccagnellae) have been absolute terrors to ANY similar sized fish--yellow tailed blue damsels, firefish, even clowns--not just conspecifics or similarly colored or shaped fish. I would add any dottyback but an orchid with extreme caution.

FWIW, the good people at ORA who breed and sell captively raised orchid dottybacks, among others, tell me that P. fridmani is the only one that they can sex, and they readily pair up. It is worth asking your LFS or supplier if they can special order or request a male and female from ORA.

 

[UnderGrad]

I'm pretty sure that thing your peppermint ate was a majano anemone. I had one of those come in on my rock. They stay pretty small and multiply pretty rapidly. Some people consider them a nuisance, but I find that they can be plucked off pretty easily. I wasn't aware that peppermint shrimp would eat them though...
Nice pics! You've definetely got the fever if you're already naming your fish and shrimp! The real give away, though, is if you've visited every LFS within a 100-150 mile radius of your house! I'm sure that you'll soon discover that no matter what size tank you get, you're always going to be limited to the future acquisitions.
Your rockwork looks nice. Considering that you don't have many flat table top areas, your going to want to get some two part marine putty/epoxy stuff (can't remember what its called at the moment) to cement your future corals in. Don't worry about them being permantly attached to the area where you cement them in... the stuff breaks off pretty easily with a little force.
So have you done any DIY modifications to the tank yet? If you haven't, you're missing out on half the fun!

-AM-

 

[daysleeper]

wow thank you all for the input! what a nice community

I'll be back tomorrow to address all of the comments/questions.
Tonight, we went out and bought the JBJ 12 gallon! And have been busy the last several hours with setting it up.... need some rest now!
Just wanted to thank you all for the warm welcome.

More to come.... 8)

 

[Anonymous]

You're welcome. And welcome.

 

[Reefer High]

I keep a fridmani in my 20 long with a yellow watchman goby and they have no problem. On the other hand i once introduced a christmas wrasse and the fridmani nearly killed it in one day.

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome to reefs.org, RH.