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LED's (finally got them installed!!!)

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Bleeding Blue

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So, in many of the posts I have read people talking about using LEDs instead of PCs to light their picos. I have also heard of limited success. My question is, would LEDs be more appropriate as supplemental lighting. I am running an eclipse 6 with 3 13W PCs. I am not getting quite the intensity that I want, however there is not much space left in the hood for me to add another PC. I was trying to figure out how to add some extra light w/out trying to screw too much with the system I have that seems to already work.


Mike
 
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Len

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Shawn Green is your avatar, eh? :P

Well, the problem I've found with using LEDs as supplemental lights is they don't offer much distribution. You're just going to end up with a few "highlighted" spots here and there.

I say if what you have is working, don't tinker with it :D
 
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Bleeding Blue

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It is good to see someone who knows who Shawn Green is. I am going to see the Dodgers vs. Giants game at pacbell tomorrow. :D

As for the LEDs, I don't think that spotlighting will be a problem. The way that the lights are already set up, and the small size of the tank leads me to believe that it will not look that odd in the tank. As I said before, the three PCs are already pretty well disperesed inside the canopy. My main concern is trying to find LEDs that are the correct spectrum.
 
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brandon4291

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An LED array would have to be of considerable size to compete with even one 13w pc in terms of intensity--to approximate the effectiveness of a standard 13w 7700K pc lamp an LED array would need 200 LED bulbs as 2-3$ apiece, unless you find and modify a setup like Milton has discovered at Lowe's. He's made a nice find there, an exit sign that is very bright and powered via transformer onboard--just plug and go. Naturally, the red LED's need to replaced unless you want one heck of a night-viewing setup.


Id like to suggest something I really think you will like. In your particular situation, why not add more 13watters? Your problem would be the hassle of doing all the retrofitting work only to upgrade PC's, but what if you could add them hassle free? For $20 per setup, an Azoo Galaxy light can't be beat. It has a wall-wart ballast (less heat/less install space in hood)and a built in TINY clip and reflector--10 seconds installation time per unit. Two of them run my Mini75. If you buy combo bulbs for $7 apiece, a few of these babies in parallel will run some serious corals in a nano. As you can see they dont have massive penetrance, but when you stock right under them its all the same. What about a 70w MH addition, then switch your current PCs to all actinics?

bulbs=www.petmeister.com
Azoo lights=www.aquaticeco.com


I wanted to list perils of disappointment in working hard on an LED array just to find out it wasnt bright enough, even after $300 dollars and the effort. If you were dealing in palmtops it'd be easier to make lighting jumps with LED's, but for the larger nanos they are still very $$ inefficient.

Btw, can't remember where I read this (rough nite) but somewhere I just read about a formal study where a scientist compared the output of white to blue LED's on patches of acropora. Coincidentally, he finds a consistent pattern using the blue bulbs and inconsistent measures with the white-emitting bulbs...it seems standard led's have more photosynthetic tuning to go through before they'll rival daylight PC.
 
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Bleeding Blue

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It sounds like very good advice. My problem with adding more conventional lighting is the heat cost. This tank is being move to Arizona, (the subject of how to move the tank will be a later thread,) and I am already worried about how to keep it cool. I have been looking a little into micro-chillers, but haven't really gotten serious. I am more interested in DIYing a radiator. Either a coil that I can run through an ice chest, or blow a really big fan across. It works for PCR, it can work for me. Anyhow, I digressed. Basically, I want it all. I want more light, without more heat. Still, it sounds like LEDs are a road that has had little success. Now I am torn. :cry:
 
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reefrancher

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Brandon: I've been reading and reading and reading every bit of info I can get on LED's. I have a 4 gallon tank with 5 x 1w LED's.

Specimens: mushrooms, zoos, a button polyp, gsp's and small frag of green montipora digitata directly under the lights. It's been up a month a half now and so far so good. I'm hopeing

I am wondering if I should get more light though? The tank's dimensions are 8x8x19 and the lid is a tight space to try and retrofit a light into.

Steve
 

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brandon4291

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Hey Steve Welcome to our new Forum, thanks for posting your nano description here. Well, the one-watters sound big. I don't think my local RadioSlack had ones with that much output, but I can't recall. Are the diode heads about the size of a pencil eraser or are yours larger? If we are talking about bulbs twice the size (or output) of the ones I was working with, then we may be talking about a setup more efficient than the ones Ive described. I figured most of us were talking about standard RShack fare...

Not sure if your system would need more light, it depends on the activity of the specimens. Do you notice your mushrooms trumpeting to get more light? I am keenly interested in seeing your digitata! Reefrancher, the day that digitata starts to plate over your attachment point is the day we can say there is no PAR restriction with white LEDs or at least the ones you have. Do you have blue-emitting leds mixed in as well? The actinic effect they provide is outstanding and every bit as flourescent as .03
bulbs. I would love to see pics of your experiment, I bet it is fantastic.

Brandon
 
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liquid

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reefrancher.com: Welcome to Reefs.org! :) Take a minute and look thru the following url to get yourself better acquainted with our website: http://www.reefs.org/liquid/howto.html

Oh, also, the picture you linked in from your gallery from outside of reefs.org is not functioning. You may want to attach the picture of your tank directly to this thread.

hth

Shane
 
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reefrancher

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Brandon: Thanks for the warm welcome :) The LED's are lumileds. http://www.lumileds.com/luxeon/products/star_index.html They're so bright that you can't look at them without incurring temporary blindness.

I'm watching the digi closely. My digitata test has been set back to week one because a hermit crab bulldozed it off of its perch and I had to reglue it to a different spot. O well. It's polyps are open all the time so I'm hoping for the best.

As for the mushrooms the are umbrellad so I believe they're happy.

I just snapped a few pics of the LED's and specimens and put them here: http://reefrancher.com/steve/nano/
 
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brandon4291

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Let me say this without embellishment, thats the baddest LED nano Ive ever seen. First of all, its from the early 80's and the shape is awesome. I wouldnt have never though LED's would penetrate that far and equally. Its blue and it looks no different than PC's, enjoying the lack of heat? A hood that needs no fanning...Id say this is in opposition to the current practice and another new frontier of nano reefing.





I know exactly what you mean about frag dislocation. My montipora does not stay in one place for more than two weeks--maybe its time to do some epoxy installation so when my boxer crab perches it can stay in place. I do have one particular acropora in the RB that is up top where nothing ever goes, it has base plated completely up under the rock perch and covered 4 square inches, rather proud of that particular SPS!

Really, outstanding nano.

Brandon
 
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brandon4291

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In the words of the great Wonka--strike that, reverse it.

Blue, I guess if you build LED's like this you could have quite the supplement to your existing 13w's. We'll have to watch for future developments to see if the setup will allow for SPS plating, and if it does this would show some nice evidence towards the PAR effectiveness of daylight LED's, or at least these really powerful ones. Those are freak LEDs from Mars and look at the penetrance in a tank that deep.


Do these powerful LEDs emit blue or white light or are they filtered output, where the diode is capped with a blue lens?
 
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reefrancher

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The power supply is an Advanced and I believe it's 13watts.

The LED's are 1watt apiece.

Yes, I do get the ripple effect :) It's very cool.

Steve
 
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brandon4291

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FWIW, these Luxeons are 10x brighter per bulb than the ones I have used in previous LED experiments--these guys are about to get some of my hard-earned cash for building such a bad-ass product. I never knew these had come out yet--this is brighter than anything we could expect. Can't wait to see wavelength spec. charts of the white and blue varities! Excellent excellent thread guys and gals.

But, if Im reading correctly these bad-boys are $15 apiece, still a costly issue but truly the only way to light a nano/pico and not need heavy fanning or an abnormally cool/stable room.
 
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