New setup--need critique

[skylsdale]

Alright guys, here's the deal. I'm really wanting to get a nano up and running, but I'm working with a really limited budget. A "tight budget" is somewhat relative, so to get as all on the same playing field, take your idea of a tight budget and reduce it to nearly nothing. Got it? That's what I'm working with here. Being married with 3 children (all of whom are 2 yrs. old and younger....two of which are twins) and having a job that I LOVE but isn't on the high end of any payscale has put a damper on any sort of setup I've attempted in the past, but it's been a couple years now and I haven't had so much as a drop of saltwater in the house. I really want to get this up and running with various pieces of equipment I've accumulated and what little funds I may be able to scrape up. So here's my plan, and I'm asking you guys to take a look at it and see if you can offer any suggestions or ideas. Here we go...

The tank will be an Eclipse6 that has sat empty for a year or so now. I'll lay down about 1" of substrate (just enough for worms and critters to crawl around in, but don't want to take up too much real estate in the tank). As for LR, this is one of the big purchases and therefore a little "iffy". Cost is the simple factor here...and the fact that the closest LFS with LR is 3 hours away. However, I have discovered that there is another reefer in the vicinity who said they would be willing to give me a small amount from their systems (exactly how much I'm not sure, or at what price). I said I was looking for 6-10 lbs, and I haven't heard back yet...so it's still up in the air, and this could really influence how I go about setting up the tank.

Anyway, I figure keeping it all inclusive without any sump or refugium would be easiest. As for additional equipment I have a small Tronic 6" 25W heater and an old school PenPlax powerhead (I believe the "Mako" model) for circulation. I don't plan on keeping the stock filter as I hate that thing and it blocks a ton of light. Speaking of lighting, this is another aspect that's up in the air. I've been doing research for a deep-water tank for over a year now, and am thinking about doing a very small scale model of that. Keep this in mind in the lighting philosophy of this tank. Obviously I want a fairly blue look to the tank, but honestly I'm not sure how much. I was thinking about switching out the stock NO bulb under the hood and putting in a small actinic bulb...but I haven't found anyplace that makes them that small. I could then maybe put a small 13W PC retro toward the back of the hood. This could maybe be a 50/50 as the 10K might just be too white. Or I could just go with the stock NO bulb and add the 13W PC as actinic. Then comes the intensity needed for corals. I'm not quite sure what I want to try, but there may be some polyps in there somewhere. I'd like to get some various "frags" of sponge and get them growing all over. Some clavularia would be nice. Still not quite sure, possibly Nemenzophyllia which is found under overhangs and clefts in the wild, but not sure how well it would do under the above lighting. I'm really interested in your guys' thoughts and ideas for the lighting. Last night I experimented with what I had lying around: the stock NO bulb and a 20W actinic NO set on the hood with the flap open. It produced a pretty nice glow in the tank. Anyway, I'm not sure if I could pull for much more than just the 13W retro right now.

As for other livestock, probably a few snails and maybe just a hermit or two. I'm thinking maybe a couple peppermint shrimp, but not sure. The "showcase' of the whole tank will be one of my favorite fish: Serranocirrhitus latus or Sunburst anthias.

 

[hillbilly]

Hey, if someone will give a few peices of LR, use it as seed rock with
dry base rock. You can get it at www.customaquatic.com for $24.99
for 25 lbs. It's a Caribsea product called "reefrock". It may take a while to seed, but it's a cheap way to get rock. I'm sure you could keep soft
corals in pc lit tank with no problem. Hello lights has a web site that sells
all kinds of lights and parts at good prices. Hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[fishfanatic2]

I second the hellolights. They have acceptable shipping rates, especially for fixtures.

 

[skylsdale]

Thanks for the replies. Maybe I was confusing in my post, but this is just a new setup...I'm not new to the nano game.

As for the LR, since I'll probably just be getting a small amount (in general since it's a 6 gal tank) I want to get the best I can. I don't think this is something that should be skimped on in nanos. I'm not dissing your suggestion, just experessing my opinion on this. I'm not familiar with the base rock you're referring to (although I'll check it out), but much of the base rock I have seen is pretty dense and lacks in shape...the end result looking like a pile of baseballs in someone's tank.

I already planned on going with HL for the lights, more specifically the 13W retro for $15. For a few more bucks I can equip it with a 50/50. I'm thinking there won't be much of a heat problem with this little retro, especially since the tank will be down in my basement office with very little for ambient room temperature. I'm banking on the fact that I can actually find an actinic bulb in the hood's stock NO...but I have a feeling that may not be available. I think this combo will give me the look I'm going for, something on the dim underbelly of the crest or reef slope. I'm not talking twilight zone here, but definitely deeper than most people try to go with their tanks (maybe 100-150 ft). Regardless, there isn't going to be much intensity as far as lighting is concerned. I would like to focus on the organisms that inhabit this type of area, rather than just adding the obligatory shrooms and other corals that can tolerate low-lit tanks. As I said before, I would like to have a pretty big diversity of sponges in the tank. I have been keeping up on Steve Tyree's reserach with cryptic zones for the last year or so, and I'm curious to implement the natural filtration capabilities of sponges into a small tank. I would also like to add plenty of filter feeders, although things like bivalves and tunicates could be impossible to keep in such a small volume of water (e.g. lack of adequate food). But I may try something bigger as well, maybe a small Tubastrea or Capnella--it all depends on how the tank begins to establish itself.

One thing I have been thinking about is adding a couple peppermint shrimp, with the goal of them spawning somewhat regularly and adding some more food to the tank. However, I'm curious as to peoples' experience with them--will they have any sort of affect on the 'pod population (e.g. what is their diet comprised of)? I don't want them to hinder the already minimal pods in the tank for the anthias.

 

[skylsdale]

I've been doing some research on the Eclipse's stock bulb, and unless I can find an actinic 8 watt T5 NO then I'll have to rethink my entire lighting scheme. If any of you happen to find a source for them, let me know. Thanks!

 

[skylsdale]

Okay....I think I may oust the whole stock bulb idea. I'll have to see how it works out, but I'm thinking the best fix will be the standard 2x13W retros under the Eclipse 6 hood: one blue and one 50/50. Heat could then become a problem, but like I said above my basement office stays pretty cool. I kept a tank with just water in it during the winter down there and the temp. stayed around 56*F. I kept some stream fish in it this summer and the temp help pretty steady around 70*F at the warmest, so the bulbs might actually help warm the water, and the heater can be in their for when it tends to cool down at night. I'm getting excited to finally have a system up and running again, hopefully it comes together!

 

[Anonymous]

I bought a couple of 13watt PC kits (Ballast, bulb, harness) from Aquarium Hobbyist Supply to replace the stock Eclipse 6 lighting. I used some of that clear light tube and some rubber endcaps to try and waterproof them. Worked reasonable well - I just had a few tiny leather corals in that tank. They sell both a 50/50 and an actinic in that bulb to my recollection check out www.ahsupply.com.

If you are not set on the stock filter like you said you could just get one 13 watt 50/50 retro and maybe replace the stock bulb with an actinic or blue bulb for more of a deepwater look. One suggestion I can make is if you think you may want either an outboard sump or refugium drill the tank now if you want to use a bulkhead for the return/drain. for rock maybe some calcerous limestone chunks that the live rock can seed - the stuff is everywhere down here and I pick pieces up to use as base rock when I'm out wandering.

 

[skylsdale]

Thanks for the suggestions Technoshaman. I've pretty much given up on keeping the stock bulb--can't find an actinic or blue version of such a small NO lamp anywhere. Tried contacting a few vendors and companies, but they don't carry them.

I'll probably go with the 2x13W retros. Right now I can get them cheaper at HelloLights than AHSupply, but the only downside is that the HelloLights retros have the ballast included in the base (they are not remote). Do you know if this will add too much more heat? For a few bucks more I can go the AHsupply route and mount the ballasts on the outside of the hood if the heat will be too much from the others.

As for the remote refugium/sump, I'm not planning one right now and I'm not sure I'll want one in the future. Like I said, I have to go as cheaply as possible and money for an extra pump, etc. just isn't there. If I do fall into something I'll definitely drill it first, but maybe I can rig an above tank system as well. The problem would be the minimal amount of flow returning from the reservoir, and that would require another powerhead in the tank for extra flow, which might start to get a little crowded.

As for rock, we don't have ANY limestone that I have ever seen up here in the PNW. It's all granite, basalt, and other forms of igneous rock.

 

[Anonymous]

Skylsdale - the AHsupply ones have a small ballast that is external to the bulb - I mounted the ballasts to the top of the hood and ran the wires in through small holes in the top of the eclipse stock hood. I may still have pics at home but this was on my 'first' nano and my first real DIY upgrade on it about 1.5 years ago.

Deepwater sounds interesting - the only thing I could see is you would need to offset the lower light with higher flow or rolling currents to move particulate food past any nonphotosynthetic corals - for example chili corals/alcyonium sp? I have found do not seem to extend feeder polyps unless it is mounted in a very high flow area. You can find Didogorgia type gorgonians which can do reasonably well in a low light tank with periodic feedings - I have had a red one for over a year with no recession (no real growth either but it's the hardiest non-photo coral I've kept other than tubastrea).

 

[Anonymous]

I think Nemenzophyllia would do well in a low lit tank like this, provided there isn't much water movement. Treat it like a mushroom that needs calcium/alk support..

www.ahsupply.com has cheap retrofit PC kits as well.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned your fish....any Anthias species is going to grow far too large for your tank, not to mention their required frequent feedings, strong water movement, and ample swimming space is going to be impossible to provide in a 6 gallon tank. I briefly entertained the idea of a Ventralis anthias, and I considered a 40 gallon tank to be the minimum for a single fish.

 

[skylsdale]

In regards to the Sunburst/Fathead anthias? Scott Michael has an entire two page spread dedicated to just this species in Reef Fishes Vol. 1 and actually did a piece about them in Advanced Aquarist: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... 2/Fish.htm They tend to break all the rules when it comes to anthias. They are a small fish and behave more like an assessor than most anthias, preferring to hover in and around crannies and overhangs. Scott actually kept his in a 10 gal tank with great success, only to have it perish and disappear when introduced to a much larger reef tank. Feeding multiple times throughout the day will not be a problem, and I have heard from many hobbyists that they take readily to tank life (if they are healthy to start with). Scott also mentions that they accept frozen foods quite well. Anyway, I've researched this fish quite well and wouldn't put it in this tank if I didn't think it would do well or have a less than adequate habitat. The tank will be pretty much dedicated to this fish, otherwise I wouldn't think of adding it.

Anyway, I've got some questions concerning retros in the Eclipse 6 hood and heat (which I'm still waiting for people to cash their opinions in on). The best deal for 13W retros can be had at Hellolights right now: http://www.hellolights.com/13wretrokit.html which includes the bulbs and everything in the price(although I probably wouldn't use the reflector). But this deal is actually cheaper than anything that can currently be found at AHSupply. The only dounfall I see is that the ballasts are NOT remote--they are at the base of the bulb. My question is whether or not you guys think the ballasts under the hood would create quite a bit more heat and cause problems? Or do you think it would make much of a difference? Or would it be best to go with the remote ballasts?

 

[Anonymous]

Skylsdale - the hood (on the eclipse 6) is extremely snug fitting which is nice for slowing down evaporation but I wouldn't put ballasts under it unless you also add some heavy duty fans to pull air out and keep the heat manageable.

 

[skylsdale]

That's what I was starting to think...thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Anonymous]

I second the remote ballasts...

I have Scott Michael's book, and I've read that spread about the fathead...I still think a 6 gallon is pushing it (the max size is 5.1", this is nearly half the tank width!), but if you can do it go for it. I assume you'll have a larger tank to move it into?

 

[skylsdale]

Been doing a lot of thinking and hashing out, and this just isn't going to come to form in such a small tank. My original plan was to do something like a 110 gal extra high tank, and I thought it would be simple to just "translate" it to a smaller system...but that's not going to happen.

I do have another idea brewing, but who know's what will come of that. Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[skylsdale]

Well, things have taken a few turns in this plan. Hopefully tomorrow I will be adding LR to the system (now a 30 gal tank: 36"x12"x17"). I'll update you all as things progress.

 

[Dan81]

Check out ahsupply.com they have some retro light kits which are a good deal plus a good selection. I have dealt with them extensively and am impressed with their service.

 

[brandon4291]

hey Skylsdale, did you make that move to 30 g? That will sure open up a lot of bioloading doors.

Go for a powerquad light!

Pics when you can,
B

 

[skylsdale]

I went to the 30 gal about a week ago with about 20-25 lbs. of LR I got for a great deal. It's Gulf rock, so it's pretty dense and looks like a bunch of softballs piled together, but hey, it's LR. But the worst part is that it all had some pretty healthy bryopsis coverage that I didn't notice when I picked it up. A bit frustrating, to say the least. Anyway, I've read and read and read about getting rid of it...and I'm screwed.

So I moved it to a 20 gal tank figuring that a low-light setup would prohibit growth and make the tank seem quite a bit fuller with the rock (the density of this rock really isn't worth paying the money for it, IMO). Anyway, it's been sitting in there and I'm not really happy with anything so far, and don't have the money to get some more rock. Since I don't want to mix any new rock with this stuff, I'll need to get a decent amount to make up for it. So I've been trying to figure out how to make do with what I have.

I'm currently thinking of resurrecting an old Eclipse 6 that I've had empty for quite a while now. The rock will pretty much pack it full, or maybe I could make a little pinnacle in there. I might try a 2x13W retro under the hood and have an above tank refugium. I'm thinking of a Red Sea inspired setup (I'm a biotope guy, you can probably tell by now) with some pocillopora (if I can manage it light wise) toward the very top and maybe some pompom xenia (although it may run rampant and choke everything out...still not sold on that), and eventually maybe a squamosa in there somewhere. It would be inhabited by a single 6-line wrasse. So that's what I'm thinking now. I'll definitely keep you guys updated when something worth posting actually happens.

 

[skylsdale]

The switch has been made to the Eclipse, a system now classified as "ghetto chic." Probably have about 10 lbs. of rock in there, in the form of two pinnacles. No substrate. I'm hoping to get some good current flowing in this tank and get SPS on the pinnacle tops and sides...maybe some Red Sea xenia toward the bottom and "filler" spaces. It's not much to look at, but maybe I'll try to get some pics loaded on here in the next couple of days.

I'm currently waiting to see how the remaining bryopsis reacts and if it begins to come back...