MicroBubbles are harmless in a coral-only system

[brandon4291]

This new thread pertains to the reefbowl, which is powered solely by one airstone driven by a large pump. This is the only means of circulation for the system and has been running for over a year now.


I had the reefbowl setup for some time before I was a member on any chat boards, before I got exposed to all the updated ins-and-outs of reefkeeping. I never knew micro bubbles were bad for a system (I knew they could irritate fish) until a fellow reefer saw the bowl in person at the OmniMax Science Spectrum (it was on display) and said: "Wow thats alot of fine bubbles, your corals are going to get irritated in time."

I digress. These bubbles have not caused any harm or necrotic areas in any coral that's lived in the bowl/ in fact, they play a vital role in a system that has relatively low circulation.

As corals exude slime, these bubbles (which are prominent in the water column) attach to the slime and increase buoyancy, eventually helping to lift the slime off the coral and carry it to the top of the vase where the popping airstone bubbles carry the slime out of the water and onto the upper parts of the glass. In a few places under my euphyllia, a few micro bubbles will reside under the extended tissue and this has not caused any problems in the coral, it extends just the same regardless of these hitchhikers. Until I read about microbubbles, my daughter and I liked them and though it was a neat side-effect of using an airstone for circulation! We still like them... we have no fish and I do agree this may be stressful to their gills, but as far as a CO nano/pico system go, MicroBubbles are harmless!

Just an update...

Brandon429

 

[Apophis924]

I agree with you the bubbles Brandon. My tanks go thru phases of micro bubbles and i have yet to see any adverse effects on any of my corals. I think most are worried about the cosmetic effect of bubbles rather than the effect on livestock. Once again you have taken nano reefing to a new level, discounting and disproving so many "laws" and rules" about reef keeping touted by well accomplished experts and authors. I am quite sure that given enough time you will soon present us with a nano reef inside a droplet of ocean spray.
Keep up the good work man and i always look forward to your advances in nano reefing.
Apo

 

[DustinDorton]

Microbubbles can cause some superficial "problems" with some stony corals. I use a large number of carlson surge devices at work. CSDs are well known for the bubble spray they create as the siphon breaks. Over time bubbles catch on the under sides of just about every species of Acropora and Montipora. The coral will die back in patches where there is direct and extended contact, however most will sort of grow around the bubble. Over time the spot will grow larger and larger, like an upside down plate, even on a branching "staghorn" type coral.
All this is not really a problem until you move the coral from that location. Then you have one of two things, an ugly spot that makes the coral harder to sell (even if it is on the underside) or a spot where algae takes up residence very rapidly.

Im sure this is a moot point in nanos though.

Dustin

 

[brandon4291]

Thanks tons Apo. It wasn't anything predicted though, more like something stumbled upon in retrospect...I really like the way microbubbles look, like when you place a wooden airstone into a tank. We thought they were cool until reading all the site info on micro air bubbles

One factor that is always present in bubble accumulation is current, so it would be more accurate on my part to include an if clause about good circulation if one is to harbor tiny bubbles. Once again I got lucky on this feature of the bowl as well, the circ. is quite strong so it keeps them in motion.

Dustin I wish I had access to some CSD's and several montiporas! Can imagine what your systems look like. Soon I am going to build a concept 180g system when the $$ drop in my lap. Until then, I can't build anything larger than what I can pick up when full!

 

[wombat1]

Another good way of creating current in a very tiny space (if you can't use an airstone) is via an electric motor mounted above the water surface with the shaft immersed in the water. You can rubberband a credit card or something smaller to the shaft (or DIY something a little nicer looking) and get very good water movement. We use these in a tank that houses sea urchin larvae that can't have pumps or airstones. Obviously it's not enough current for a SPS tank, but I imagine it would work great for a very small zoanthid/mushroom tank. HTH, Matt

 

[liquid]

Wombat: got any pics of that credit-card setup?

Shane

 

[brandon4291]

Now that is my kind of lab, custom-designed spinning devices and larval experimentation?!? Wombat you have a terribly fun job!




Dustin after you mentioned that I went and looked and I do have that phenomena under some of my SPS. Thick polyp growth sets up a bubble net on the undersides, thankfully its only in a couple small spots. There was retracted tissue under that particular arm. Thats one area I never bothered to look at all this time!

 

[wombat1]

Here's the motor pics. It's actually a clock motor so it rotates at, you guessed it, 60 RPM. A small AC adapter would be needed for a little hobby motor, I assume, which could spin a bit faster and create more flow. I'm sure someone (Brandon?) could DIY a nice little one!

 

[reefann]

That is so cool were do you work??
Thanks JJ
_________________
Russian Legion (paintball team)

 

[Anonymous]

I've had 2 noticeable problems with microbubbles.

1 they will hurt sps, they buildup under the coral, and will kill the tissue.

2 I had some trumpets in my 10g I ran many years ago, that ingested some, the bubbles sat in the coral for months, finally the tissue tore letting the bubbles escape.

I keep enough current in the tank now so I dont have a problem with the sps getting air built up under them, and I have not had any lps ingest air sense that onetime occation.

 

[brandon4291]

How much did you step up your current in the system to counteract the negative effects of these bubbles> when the system had less current, how did the bubbles get into the LPS? Did they hitchhike in on a mucous strand or get directed into the oral cavity? Also Im interested in knowing if you had tissue recession past the immedate bubble contact area and if it was polyp retraction or tissue erosion.

The reason I ask is when I did find a couple patches of MBubbles under an SPS branch in the RBowl, I noticed these areas would have enough current to wash out the bubbles every few minutes as well as import a few more under the branch. The bubbles seemed to physically irritate the few polyps it was directly touching, and after it moved those would open up and two or three more SPS polyps would retract and so on. I saw no major tissue recession so it appeared to me to be only mildly irritating and nothing a step up in circulation wouldnt cure. Ive never had an LPS get a bubble problem like the one youve described but I can see how its possible... do you think a strong current from the powerhead drove some bubbles in there or kept them from being expelled easily? I ask this because it seems that during the nightly retraction phase the LPS would be able to expel or manipulate the bubbles to export them out of the polyp much quicker than the length of time you described.

I should edit the title of this thread to include something about circulation....eh?

 

[Anonymous]

The lps ingested them somehow, they were good sized airbubbles, I'm assuming mucus strand caught the airbubble and the coral ate it. My lps all open up at night and feed, I also feed the tank after the lights go out, crushed up formula one.

As to the sps, it would kill off a spot, wherever the bubble would build up, down to bare skeleton, I never noticed small bubbles, only large spots, 1-2" airbubbles trapped under the coral built up over time.

I increased the current and use wavemakers, which is just enough to keep from having the bubbles build up anymore, on the system at that time, I had a pair of rio 2500's on a wavemaker, along with 6 maxijet 1200's, was a 100g tank.

 

[wombat1]

I have an open brain that somehow got an air bubble inside it. I popped a small hole in the tissue and all is fine. I don't have any problems with my SPS.

BTW, I work in the Bio Dept. at my university. If you look real close the device says "Bio 1B" on it.

 

[brandon4291]

Next time post your nano surgery pics up! Lol, but seriously coral surgery needs to be done from time to time (for various reasons) and like you've said, its usually on LPS and their huge inflated polyps...

My recent venture was repairing the septa around a portion of my green frogspawn. During relocation, I chipped about 4 septa off the main base, but these still retained tissue attachment. There was just one side of the polyp sticking out from the main base, so all I did was glue up under the septa to get them back one the base. This injured some of the tissue directly on the ridge, but with healthy conditions it will regrow in two weeks--at least it won't look all wierd sticking out from the main skeleton.

Someone make a thread next time on physical repair of corals in the nano- that would be a fun thread and helpful to many especially with pics/

 

[plankton123]

Micro bubbles should be avoided if possible, since coral tissue can be damaged if bubbles collect underneath. e.g. I have an m.cap (nice swirling red) that can collect bubbles underneath the swirls (if you can picture it). However, if you have a nano full of just zoos and shrooms then prolly a non-issue.

 

[brandon4291]

Wouldnt you say though that anywhere a bubble can collect so could slime exudate and this is typically why we need good circulation in our sps tanks? I agree that a collection of microbubbles would be bad for tissue, but this very collection may also indicate a need for better circulation. Although I wasnt very clear in the title of the thread, I was meaning that just because micro bubbles are in a system doesnt mean they will harm your corals>other factors such as and primarily circulation/current would determine the detrimental effects of microbubbles. Picture the reefbowl with its only airstone as circulation...there are more micro bubbles per gallon in this setup than any other reeftank I know of. They swirl around and land on the hammer and frogspawn corals, but then they either attach to slime strands and float off or become dislodged by the current (which is very stong in a 6'' wide vase) and wind up popping at the top of the water column. Mainly its just a thread to say you don't have to re-engineer your entire setup if you find micro bubbles. Harmless may have been an overstatement as I sure am good at that

 

[plankton123]

No worries. You are probably correct that if pockets of air collect underneath a coral then there probably either a) isn't enough circulation or b) there isn't enough of the correct circulation.

In your context of a nano vase (or this now a pico reef?) with mostly soft corals then any micro bubbles prolly doesn't irritate the corals much. Better to have microbubbles then poor circulation. <grin>

 

[brandon4291]

The montipora and acropora dont seem to mind it either, but then again there is sufficient circulation for the size tank they are in. easy to achieve when the whole tank is 9 inches long :!: