that's it. i'm hooked. (i hope you appreciate my fish humor) anyways, i got a couple more fish, and i am sick of this ten gallon divided in half b.s. so, i am getting an eclipse system 12. here's the deal. i can rig up the 2x28 kit just fine under the hood, because bleeding blue showed me how. I may even get a 13 watt pc just to make sure i have enough light. the thing is this: the system isn't gutted yet, and there'll still be some kind of filtration in it. I want more fish, in fact, i'll probably have too many, but to be more precise, i have 2 percula, a mandarin, and a $4 bling bling damsel. i'll probably get another damsel, and maybe 1 or 2 other specimens. i figure around 6 or 7 fish before i'm satisfied. i have around 10 lbs live rock now, and i think i'll have 20 for the 12 gal. my question is this: for 12 gallons, do i need a skimmer for this many fish, or can I rig something like bioballs (which i don't know anything about, i've only heard of them) inside of the already existing eclipse filter (which i haven't actually seen yet) I'll have the maxi jet 1200, and a rio 600 (which i'm not sure i need or want to use,) and I won't have a deep sand bed. (I can't stand that algae infested look in front of the tank. I like to look at it because it's interesting, but it's just plain ugly). what do you think guys. the one nice thing about my tank now is that there is no internal plumbing. I can hide the powerheads inside of the rock, but a skimmer just may screw up the whole "eclipse" theme i'm shooting for. bleeding blue has a sick setup, but i don't want all that plumbing on the outside. i don't mind doing water changes, but i would like to do them every 20-30 days or so. i know my standards may be just a bit too high for what i'm dealing with, but i just want to know if it can be done. let me know with an open mind please. and check out these sick pics
new everything please help brandon429
- Thread starter kimichan
- Start date
Not bad. I'd say with that many fish you'll need to keep up with water changes and such because of how much waste produced, and I'd say a skimmer would be a huge benefit. Also water changes maybe every week or so. I have 6 fish in my 20g and I am only able to keep trates down because I have three clams in the tank that eat up the trates. Maybe a hippopus would do ok in your tank, although when it gets big you'll have to move it into another tank or sell it.
Oh and btw how is the mandarin doing? Getting enough food? Reason I ask is because imo they can be kept in smaller tanks, I had one in the 20g but it unfortunately got sucked up into an uncovered pump tube to my old fuge 
. It was always nice and fat and even ate mysis.
. It was always nice and fat and even ate mysis.Hehe... someone a while ago asked about keeping a mandarin in a 20g and everyone told him it wouldn't work out... so keep me updated on how yours does, I'd like to get one down the road sometime for mine.
A bit of advice about the powerhead... don't hide it in the rockwork... when the screen on the intake gets all clogged up or the powerhead quits on you for any of a 1000 reasons, you'll be gutting your rockwork just to get to it.
With that many fish, you'll want to do water changes every 14 days at the very least IMO even if you skim it.
-AM-
A bit of advice about the powerhead... don't hide it in the rockwork... when the screen on the intake gets all clogged up or the powerhead quits on you for any of a 1000 reasons, you'll be gutting your rockwork just to get to it.
With that many fish, you'll want to do water changes every 14 days at the very least IMO even if you skim it.
-AM-
That's just too many fish, IMO. The only way you can keep that many is to have a large sump connected to your tank, unless you're talking about 1" gobies. Keep in mind your clowns get about 3" a piece, and that damsel gets probably 6" (I'm guessing...). Those two clowns would be suitable in a 12 gallon, but I wouldn't add any more fish than that.
By the way, mandarins are completely UNsuitable fish for tanks smaller than 100 gallons despite their tiny size. I've seen quite a few "old" mandarins, and by that I mean older than two years, and they have all been in very large, well established reef tanks with abundant live rock with no other copepod predators like sixline wrasses. They live by foraging on pods all day long, and they need abundant amounts of live rock along with a refugium or else they will quickly decimate the pod population. They will not normally accept standard flake food, and even those that do typically starve to death because they are not being fed often enough. It may take a year to happen, but it eventually will. Just trust me on this one, Daniel: get rid of that fish--donate it to the university, take it back to the LFS, find someone who can take it, whatever-- it will not live in your tank.
By the way, mandarins are completely UNsuitable fish for tanks smaller than 100 gallons despite their tiny size. I've seen quite a few "old" mandarins, and by that I mean older than two years, and they have all been in very large, well established reef tanks with abundant live rock with no other copepod predators like sixline wrasses. They live by foraging on pods all day long, and they need abundant amounts of live rock along with a refugium or else they will quickly decimate the pod population. They will not normally accept standard flake food, and even those that do typically starve to death because they are not being fed often enough. It may take a year to happen, but it eventually will. Just trust me on this one, Daniel: get rid of that fish--donate it to the university, take it back to the LFS, find someone who can take it, whatever-- it will not live in your tank.
Wow Daniel it sounds like you have been busy. I am kinda in Matt's camp here. I think that too many fish will pose more problems than they are worth. As you increase bioload, you are increasing any number of potential problems (algae problems, ammonia problems, nitrate problems, etc.). I think that you would be much happier if you kept working on setting up some awesome setups using tried and true methods. Maybe spend some of the money and time on a couple of aquarium books rather than more fish. Just my thoughts.
If you are going to set up a twelve, maybe you should work on setting it up with as a fish only tank. This way, you could keep most of the stuff for the ten going, and be able to use more of the built in eclipse products, which tend to be inappropriate for setting up a reef. Bio-balls are probably a bad idea, as they tend to keep too much nitrate in the water. Furthermore, if you wanted to use that sort of biological filtration, you could just use the bio-wheel that comes with the eclipse. However, I think that if you do a search on this board about bio-wheels & bio-balls, you will find a lot of unhappy customers.
Have a look at the advice that Brandon and Matt just gave to tealcobra in the newbie threadin this forum. In it they both give great advice about setting up a new tank. (Good post guys.)
Lastly, IMO you should get rid of the mandarin. However, I don't think that you should donate it to the university. The only tank that we have that would remotely have a chance to support a fish with that type of needs is the reef tank, which also houses a carpet anemone. Carpet anemones tend to be the main thing that kills those fish faster than starvation.
Good luck. And make sure you stop by the university before I leave for good. I am leaving in August you know.
Mike
If you are going to set up a twelve, maybe you should work on setting it up with as a fish only tank. This way, you could keep most of the stuff for the ten going, and be able to use more of the built in eclipse products, which tend to be inappropriate for setting up a reef. Bio-balls are probably a bad idea, as they tend to keep too much nitrate in the water. Furthermore, if you wanted to use that sort of biological filtration, you could just use the bio-wheel that comes with the eclipse. However, I think that if you do a search on this board about bio-wheels & bio-balls, you will find a lot of unhappy customers.
Have a look at the advice that Brandon and Matt just gave to tealcobra in the newbie threadin this forum. In it they both give great advice about setting up a new tank. (Good post guys.)
Lastly, IMO you should get rid of the mandarin. However, I don't think that you should donate it to the university. The only tank that we have that would remotely have a chance to support a fish with that type of needs is the reef tank, which also houses a carpet anemone. Carpet anemones tend to be the main thing that kills those fish faster than starvation.
Good luck. And make sure you stop by the university before I leave for good. I am leaving in August you know.
Mike
Hey Kimichan! sorry I didnt get back on yesterday, and I like what I have read from these nano-do-wells that have posted Yeah thats a lot of fish, so if you are going that route I think you will have to change water frequently and skim, both will be required over the long haul if you want to keep algae at bay. What did you mean 10g in half? If you were using half for the baffle refugium then Id say that is too much and you are losing precious aquascape room in the 10g. It will work just fine if not better for fixing nutrients (more room=more macroalgae uptake) but Id recommend about 10-20% of any tank be set off for an internal refugium if thats how you want to "filter"
As far as bioballs--the only time we would need them in a system is to account for lack of surface area in relation to bioload. Now you have mentioned setting up quite a fish-laden system, and if you get continual ammonia or nitrite readings in the next few months, then you may have surface area issues that bio-balls may help with. I dont think this will happen, thats a lot of LR you ahve in there and its porosity should be more than enough to deal with even that heavy of an initial nitrogen (ammonia) load. The current practice is to use LR for the surface area instead of bio-balls and this almost always works just fine.
Your sick-pics: These polyps are called parazoanthus aximellae and from what I read they are azooxanthellate---ie they do not need light to reproduce in captivity. Apparently they favor particulate matter uptake and direct feedings (my buddies feed them brine shr) and will reproduce readily or die off as this availability dictates. Ive kept them too in my picos, but they didnt live longer than 4 months. I suspect yours are just doing their natural openings/closings unless they have been like this for awhile.
The funny thing on the rock---Matt did you say it might be an old fixing plug of sg or epoxy? I cant tell from the pic, and if its not a funny sponge of some kind that would be my guess as well.
One thing is for sure, thats quite a fish load you have and you can try it as long as you can't detect ammonia or nitrite in the water through regular testings. If you measure some and you have maxed out your surface area for that particular setup---some of your pissers have to go. (urea=ammonia=nitrite/trate in the presence of surface area, bacteria and oxygen) The residual nitrate that builds up over time before a skimmer has a chance to yank it out may still be an algae prob--it depends on tank circulation, skimmer velocity and volume, many things. Give it a whirl but Id say take off 1/3 of the fish load and youll have a better shot.
Good luck bro
B
Yeah thats a lot of fish, so if you are going that route I think you will have to change water frequently and skim, both will be required over the long haul if you want to keep algae at bay. What did you mean 10g in half? If you were using half for the baffle refugium then Id say that is too much and you are losing precious aquascape room in the 10g. It will work just fine if not better for fixing nutrients (more room=more macroalgae uptake) but Id recommend about 10-20% of any tank be set off for an internal refugium if thats how you want to "filter"As far as bioballs--the only time we would need them in a system is to account for lack of surface area in relation to bioload. Now you have mentioned setting up quite a fish-laden system, and if you get continual ammonia or nitrite readings in the next few months, then you may have surface area issues that bio-balls may help with. I dont think this will happen, thats a lot of LR you ahve in there and its porosity should be more than enough to deal with even that heavy of an initial nitrogen (ammonia) load. The current practice is to use LR for the surface area instead of bio-balls and this almost always works just fine.
Your sick-pics: These polyps are called parazoanthus aximellae and from what I read they are azooxanthellate---ie they do not need light to reproduce in captivity. Apparently they favor particulate matter uptake and direct feedings (my buddies feed them brine shr) and will reproduce readily or die off as this availability dictates. Ive kept them too in my picos, but they didnt live longer than 4 months. I suspect yours are just doing their natural openings/closings unless they have been like this for awhile.
The funny thing on the rock---Matt did you say it might be an old fixing plug of sg or epoxy? I cant tell from the pic, and if its not a funny sponge of some kind that would be my guess as well.
One thing is for sure, thats quite a fish load you have and you can try it as long as you can't detect ammonia or nitrite in the water through regular testings. If you measure some and you have maxed out your surface area for that particular setup---some of your pissers have to go. (urea=ammonia=nitrite/trate in the presence of surface area, bacteria and oxygen) The residual nitrate that builds up over time before a skimmer has a chance to yank it out may still be an algae prob--it depends on tank circulation, skimmer velocity and volume, many things. Give it a whirl but Id say take off 1/3 of the fish load and youll have a better shot.
Good luck bro
B
Yup, it's an old epoxy plug.
I used to have a few of those yellow polyps...they quickly spread from 3 polyps to cover the entire rock they were on. I never fed them, but they were in my refugium so they were probably getting tons of food. IIRC, they were closed at night. They would probably do well with feedings of flake or frozen food.
I used to have a few of those yellow polyps...they quickly spread from 3 polyps to cover the entire rock they were on. I never fed them, but they were in my refugium so they were probably getting tons of food. IIRC, they were closed at night. They would probably do well with feedings of flake or frozen food.
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
