Weekly discussion - Reef Janitors - help or hype?

[Anonymous]

Weekly discussion - Reef Janitors - help or hype?

Reef janitors always seem to be recommended, yet there are always posts on RDO describing tanks that have all kinds of organic problems while having a huge population of janitors.
Do clean up crews help? Do they hurt? Which ones? Do they just provide false hope?
What do you think?



About the RDO Weekly Discussion:
This discussion is meant to get at your experience and to share information that is in your head, so don't necessarily treat it as information gathering. State your opinion and, if available, use material, anecdotal or otherwise, that will back up your opinion.
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[Len]

FWIW, my experiences are as follows:

I used to heavily employ "janitors" (hermits, snails, etc.) up until approximately 4 years ago. I didn't bother replacing those specimens that died over the years, and I currently have a very minimal population of janitors (something like 10 snails and no hermits). And nowadays, I have absolutely no problematic algae in my tank. Even Valonia and Bryposis blooms which previously plagued my tank are now nearly nonexistant. With janitors, I had on and off battles with algae.

So what do I conclude from this experience? It's hard to say. I am convinced that in established, balanced reef aquaria, janitors are not required. I further speculate that janitors may promote algae growth at a greater rate then they consume. Grazing activities have been demonstrated to encourage fauna growth, and I think this may be exactly what occurs in our captive reefs. Janitors may serve a short term role of reducing algae populations in newer tanks, but my experience tells me that in older aquariums, they may actually promote algae growth as opposed to reducing them.

Of course, I may be completely off base. I have a huge population of amphipods, copepods, and other macroplanktonic grazers. This obviously goes against my theory that grazing activities actually encourage algae growth in reef aquariums. Perhaps these species are simply better janitors?

Needless to say, I think balancing nutrient import (foods, additives) and export (via skimming, water changes, etc.) is far more critical. Janitors should not be counted on to provide for a healthy mini ecosystem.

 

[Anonymous]

Hermit crabs are useless. Snails can help quit a bit. I don't add any janitors as my snails reproduce without hermits in there.

 

[BallPy]

Hermit crabs are useless.

Well I personaly wouldnt say that they are useless. My snails refuse to graze on anything except the glass and rocks. On the other hand my hermits are constantly cleaning the sand. They remove a layer of algea from the sand every night. This may only be because the system is only about 6 months old though.

 

[Anonymous]

BallPy,

I didn't know hermits were algae eaters. Mine never were. All they ate was snails and each other. Conuchs, cucumbers and worms do a much better job and don't attack anything else.

 

[0db]

BallPy,

I didn't know hermits were algae eaters. Mine never were. All they ate was snails and each other. Conuchs, cucumbers and worms do a much better job and don't attack anything else.

In my experience the hermits may not eat the algae but they do at least disturb the top layer of sand, which prevents a solid film of algae from ever forming over the sand. Particularly on new tanks this really makes them at least LOOK a lot cleaner.

 

[brandon4291]

In larger, well-fed systems I like to use hermits and snails as reducers for detritus, uneaten food and animals that may die in the rock recesses. They pick through it a lot and help to reduce it small enough to get it into the bed where bacteria work on it until its elemental. Along the way pods help too, but crabs can tear into larger chunks of detritus and also help consume any fish that might die where you can't find them.

Ive seen my boxer crabs pick at bryopsis and dislodge it but they didnt eat it, maybe a few bites. It just floats away and is hopefully removed or cast into a dark zone where it dies.

One thing I DONT like about crabs is how they crawl on corals.

Agree with what Len said, Id rather adjust physical and chemical params of the system to combat algae rather than use a cleanup crew.

 

[Will C1]

i've had the same expieriences as len. when i first set up my reef i said to my self i better get some stuff to eat all this algea. so i bought 50 sails and 50 crabs as a clen up crew. now that 4 years has gone by most of the snails have either died off or been eatin by the crabs i have a decent pop. mabe 10-15 for my 90gal and this is what i would recomend people to add no more. also i love the antics of my hermits they are fun to watch and they help clean up the food my fish dont eat quick enough.

 

[Anonymous]

I like clean up critters. Snails help keep the glass clean. Crabs help keep the sand and rocks clean.

I think the recommended quantity shown on most vendors website is crazy. Most call for something like 2 janitors per gallon. All say at least 1 per G. That's rediculous. I prolly had 75 or more snails and crabs in my 75G when I first started. LFS's loved me. Most all snails died 9or were killed) within the first 1 1/2 years or so. I've added a few snails along the way. Right now I have 8-10 scarlett crabs, 1-2 blue-leggs, and 20-30 various snails and 3 brittle stars. Tanks looks great with no algea problems.

Louey

 

[LFS42]

the only clean up crew I have came with the live rock.
slipper snails and small brittle stars.
I've added 12 blue leg hermits, but havn't seen them for 6 months.

 

[danmhippo]

My clean up critter is 5 pep shrimps and 2 conch. My glass cleaners are 2 abalone, magnetic pads, and 2 hands with a razorblade.

I've had hermits commiting destructive acts in the reef. Abalone cleans area on the glass 10x what snails do. Any accidental changes in alkalinity shocks the brittle stars to lose one or 2 of their legs. All these I can do without.

Besides, if you do not overfeed the tank, have good circulation, you don't need all those hermits and snails. HA, right, one snail per a gallon. I'd be staring at snails instead of my glass.

 

[Will C1]

i agree with damnhippo. more like 1 per 10-20 gal. is what keeps my reef clean.

 

[Anonymous]

I always figured a clean up crew helped, after all, they DO eat algae, but now I swear by them.

I had a problem with my lighting and my tank went without light for a good month while the repeated repairs were being made. When my lights were finally back on my tank, I had a major algae bloom - just like in the beginning! I was so disappointed, I didn't start the tank so long ago that I didn't remember how bad those initial algae blooms were!

But I bought 6 or so more scarlet hermits and about 20 astraea snails and they went to town. Within days I could see into my tank again. About a week later I started dripping kalk (which I swear by) and within another week, the algae was gone. There are still a couple stubborn patches that I have to get in there and physically remove, hopefully this weekend.

Just a note - I've read that some people have problems with red leg hermits being destructive - there is a difference between red legs and scarlets. Scarlets have the yellow eye-stalks and I've never seen them cause trouble in my tank. I've seen them pick snails' shells clean of algae and not bother the snails at all. Blue leg hermits, on the other hand - don't like them at all. I've seen them eat snails and leave the shell behind. The point about them leaving the shell behind is if you don't give your hermits different shells to move into they may kill snails as they grow because they need a bigger home. But blue legs just murdered my snails for the sport.

For snails, I love astraeas and turbos, but the problem with turbos is they are not very hardy. If you get some into your tank and they survive the acclimation process, they'll be quite hardy, but I find it tough to get them over that hump.

I also love my blue tuxedo urchin - he's been in there a couple years now and never harms a soul. Never moves rocks around or topples anything like other urchins do. Does a great job eating algae.

 

[aliendomain]

I have about ten turbo snails and four shrimp (1 fire, 2 cleaner and a peppermint) in a 55 and I have had great results, very little algae and no more Aiptasia, I did try a brittle star but I removed it after it ate a fire shrimp 8O. Needles to say I won't be adding anymore of those.

 

[Anonymous]

In my 6 month old tank I have an assortment of snails. I know they are helping at the moment because in the spots they can't reach (sea-swirl outlet) there is a heavy algae growth. I don't use any hermits because I like to foster as much sessile critter growth as possible and these guys are picky picky, and also they pester recently-fed LPS corals.

I have had scarlet hermits in the past, and I can't say for sure that they had any beneficial effect towards algae reduction. I did see one eat a red flatworm however...

 

[JonF1]

I removed all my snails and crabs as I've been trying to catch a #$%^ mantis shrimp for the past few months and they kept going after the food in the traps.

I've had no problems whatsoever. I have fewer snails to feed on the algae on the glass but that just means I have to scrape every 3 days or so to keep the tank looking crystal. Before maybe I had an extra day or two. I do have brittle stars for dead stuff and starfish to stir the sand.

Otherwise my 2.5 year old 150g tank seems to be no worse for lack of snails and crabs. I think I will not replace these janitors once my mantis is cooked.

 

[AllenF]

I bought 10 of what was labeled "reef hermits" and put them in my 65 Gallon.

My observations:
They are neither red legged nor blue legged...looks more like "grey" legs....not sure what they really are.

They eat brown algae off of the sand bed, green algae off of the live rocks and cyano red algae off of the live rocks....yep you read it right, they eat cyano up like its going out of style leaving only nice pink corraline behind.

They do not conflist with the purple brittle star, which comes out and grabs a bithe at feeding and scurries back under the live rock.

They do not bother any fish, anemone, or snails.

I have 3 Turbo snails in the 65 also very good glass cleaners.


I believe the recommended amounts are ludicrous, with 10 in my 65 Gallon, it appears there is "just enough" algae and food to go around.

Same thing with my 3 Tubo snails in the 65 Gallon. There is "just enough" glass to grow enough algae to sustain them.

Honestly if it wasnt for whatever is under the LR and my feedings, I think the brittle would starve.

Tank is only 6 months so we will see what happens.

Oh yea, I also have 1 neon goby and 1 scarlet shrimp. To my thinking these also qualify as "clean up crews".

 

[Anonymous]

I'm going with the "hype" answer. Whomever said that snails help control detritus above in the thread doesn't understand what a snail does. They create MORE detritus, which isn't a bad thing necessarily. However, I find that the snail droppings on the rocks tend to promote the growth of bryopsis and other nuisance algaes.
Cheers
Jim

 

[Anonymous]

fwiw:

i think that the best (or worst :wink: )janitor around is the aquarist.

all nuisance algaes are symptoms of an underlying condition-an excess of some type of nutrient, or a substance that is utilized by the nuisance algae as a nutrient

adding any type of 'clean up crew' animal to a closed system will not reduce the production/accumulation of nutrients.period.

while an animal may help get rid of algae in its present location, those nutrients are recycled back into the system-to fuel algal growth in another location, or at a later time

the easiest and most direct way to eliminate nuisance algae is through waste control-a method that deals with the actual cause

i've seen spotless tanks that stay that way, with not one 'cleanup crew' type animal added ( pods, etc., excepted-i'm referring to the hermits and turbos).

i've also seen tanks loaded with cleanup crews that always have algae problems


gallonage, at any rate, has nothing to do with determmining the amount of cleanup animals desired to clean a surface-the area of the surface, vs. the area that one cleanup crew animal can clean, is the determining factor,though the real problem still won't go away, w/out proper management of the system :wink:

my 0.02

 

[Anonymous]

while an animal may help get rid of algae in its present location, those nutrients are recycled back into the system-to fuel algal growth in another location, or at a later time

Although they are probably more likely to be removed by the skimmer in the form of snail poop than as algae.