A
Anonymous
Guest
What do host anemones eat in the wild? Do they completely rely on their host fish to provide food?
Glenn
Glenn
A
Anonymous
Guest
Glenn
I have also read that they position themselves so that current brings them food. I wish I could provide the link as I was finding this while studying while I wanted one.
I have also read that they position themselves so that current brings them food. I wish I could provide the link as I was finding this while studying while I wanted one.
Glen, Dr Ron recently said that an anemone needs to be fed alot more than most people feed them. He actually went on to say that if fed well they don't need much light as their Zoo is not an important factor as far as needed nutrition. If you are interested you can look at RC in his forum for this thread.
Steve
Steve
That was actually what had spawned this question. I was feeding a good deal without the fsh present. Now that I have the fish, do I feed the fish or the anemone? In the wild does a host anemone continue to "catch" its own food or does it rely solely on his tenans?
Glenn
Glenn
Hi SPC:
This is an incorrect and misleading statement:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
The energy produced by the anemones symbiotic Zooxanthellae IS an important part of the anemone's energy budget. Dr. Ron has produced NO references to the contrary, and I think people are - also and in some cases foolhartedly - interpreting his comments.
Host sea anemones live up on the top of the reef where light is brightest. I have hardly EVER seen a host sea anemone below 60 feet in the wild. Light intensity at these depths is many times what it is in our aquaria. Anemones are up there for a reason folks...as there's plenty of food below that depth for them to eat, but they prefer to get a mix of food and light.
Hope that clears up some of the confusion.
James
[ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: jamesw ]
This is an incorrect and misleading statement:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
The energy produced by the anemones symbiotic Zooxanthellae IS an important part of the anemone's energy budget. Dr. Ron has produced NO references to the contrary, and I think people are - also and in some cases foolhartedly - interpreting his comments.
Host sea anemones live up on the top of the reef where light is brightest. I have hardly EVER seen a host sea anemone below 60 feet in the wild. Light intensity at these depths is many times what it is in our aquaria. Anemones are up there for a reason folks...as there's plenty of food below that depth for them to eat, but they prefer to get a mix of food and light.
Hope that clears up some of the confusion.
James
[ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: jamesw ]
Hmm I do too read it like SPC is reading it.. here is the link to the total thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34041&highlight=anemone
Here is the best example I could find that light was NOT important but FOOD is.
Now are you saying we are not reading right or Ron Shimek is wrong??
rshimek
Moderator
10 & Over Club
Registered: Oct 1999
Posts: 5910
Location: Wilsall, Montana
Occupation: Marine Ecologist - Invertebrate Zoologist
Interests: Invertebrate Biology and Evolution, Montana Native Orchids, Aqueous ethanolic solutions of a barley malt origin....
Hi,
Folks, you are not listening!
The animal needs nutrition, how it gets it is immaterial.
Zooxanthellae basically provide carbohydrate nutrition to anemones and nothing more.
Feeding provides carbs and proteins. This is all the animal needs...
If they are feeding, you can keep all host anemones in absolute darkness until they are bleached whiter than sheets, and they will live just fine. As long as they are fed. The algae are immaterial to the host as long as it gets enough nutrition.
__________________
Cheers, Ron
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34041&highlight=anemone
Here is the best example I could find that light was NOT important but FOOD is.
Now are you saying we are not reading right or Ron Shimek is wrong??
rshimek
Moderator
10 & Over Club
Registered: Oct 1999
Posts: 5910
Location: Wilsall, Montana
Occupation: Marine Ecologist - Invertebrate Zoologist
Interests: Invertebrate Biology and Evolution, Montana Native Orchids, Aqueous ethanolic solutions of a barley malt origin....
Hi,
Folks, you are not listening!
The animal needs nutrition, how it gets it is immaterial.
Zooxanthellae basically provide carbohydrate nutrition to anemones and nothing more.
Feeding provides carbs and proteins. This is all the animal needs...
If they are feeding, you can keep all host anemones in absolute darkness until they are bleached whiter than sheets, and they will live just fine. As long as they are fed. The algae are immaterial to the host as long as it gets enough nutrition.
__________________
Cheers, Ron
James, it is one thing to say you disagree with Dr Rons comments, however its quite another to say that my comments were misleading and that I foolhartedly - interprepreted his comments. Did I not convey the same message that he wrote? Please explain where you feel it was justified to make these comments on a personal level.
Steve
Steve
SPC,
I wouldn't take James' comments personally. Ever since Dr. Shimek's thread was posted, there have been several discussions in chat about the validity and responsibility of that statement.
If you read Dr. Shimek's statement without bias, it can easily be misconstrued by hobbyists to mean that they can keep anemones regardless of lighting. While this may be true, it does not make it responsible. We, as reefkeepers, attempt to duplicate the conditions (lighting, flow, water quality, and food among others) of the natural state. Having spent 4 years diving/snorkeling the reefs in the indo-pacific, I can assure you that you will not find a bleached white anemone living happily under a rock ledge. If light were not a requirement for anemone health then why would they live and prosper in such high-light conditions?
I'm no green tree-hugger, but I still think to state you can keep an animal in substandard conditions is irresponsible. JMO, but sometimes I think Dr. Shimek forgets that his writings are read and interpreted by ALL levels of reefers including folks that know absolutely NOTHING about the animals to which he refers. Who knows, maybe those statements come after having imbibed an excess of "Aqueous ethanolic solutions of a barley malt origin...."
I kept green bubble tip anemones for a couple of years without any direct feeding whatsoever. They both survived and thrived very well under just "light" feeding.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards,
Scott
I wouldn't take James' comments personally. Ever since Dr. Shimek's thread was posted, there have been several discussions in chat about the validity and responsibility of that statement.
If you read Dr. Shimek's statement without bias, it can easily be misconstrued by hobbyists to mean that they can keep anemones regardless of lighting. While this may be true, it does not make it responsible. We, as reefkeepers, attempt to duplicate the conditions (lighting, flow, water quality, and food among others) of the natural state. Having spent 4 years diving/snorkeling the reefs in the indo-pacific, I can assure you that you will not find a bleached white anemone living happily under a rock ledge. If light were not a requirement for anemone health then why would they live and prosper in such high-light conditions?
I'm no green tree-hugger, but I still think to state you can keep an animal in substandard conditions is irresponsible. JMO, but sometimes I think Dr. Shimek forgets that his writings are read and interpreted by ALL levels of reefers including folks that know absolutely NOTHING about the animals to which he refers. Who knows, maybe those statements come after having imbibed an excess of "Aqueous ethanolic solutions of a barley malt origin...."
I kept green bubble tip anemones for a couple of years without any direct feeding whatsoever. They both survived and thrived very well under just "light" feeding.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards,
Scott
It is my understanding that anemones in the wild can live up to 100 years.. a few years in an aquarium then is not really a success.. maybe what Ron Shimek is trying to explain is even if no light is not their natural habitat, you might have more chances to keep it alive longer with food then those big metal halides..
Since most people seems to think that big MH is the solution for keeping them and since the majority of people do not keep them for more then a few years.. maybe Ron has a point?
SPC,
I was not addressing you as foolhardy, so please don't take my comments as personal. What I was stating was that I believe what you posted was not correct (IMO) and needed clarification/correction.
It is my most fervent wish that people do not interpret Dr. Ron's comments to mean that it OK to keep an anemone in sub-standard conditions. I am very dismayed to see that people are using his comments (which are correct when taken purely by themselves. I will address that in a sec) as an excuse to buy an anemone with the thought "Oh, I don't have adequate lighting, but the anemone will be fine, I will just feed it a lot."
I've got news for you folks, feeding an anemone the correct foods and getting it to accept them is NOT easy, and it requires more dedication and time than most reefers seem ready to dedicate to their tanks.
Ron was trying to make a single very technical point: an anemone can be kept in total darkness provided it's energy needs are met through feeding. Should this be done? Hell no! I would also like to point out that a tank with 2 40w flourescent lamps is essentially total darkness from an anemone's point of view.
Please keep in mind that I do not wish to debate Dr. Ron via proxy through you folks. Ron and I have discussed this before at MACNA and we are both in agreement about his point about feeding. Anemones do need to be fed. What I do not agree with is people paraphrasing Ron's in-depth statements and misinterpretting them, then spreading these misconceptions on various bulletin boards.
To repeat myself - Ron has made a very good point: Anemones need to be fed. People are taking this as: Regardless of my tank, I can keep an anemone as long as I try to feed it. This is a big "no-no."
Ron has stated many times on the bulletin boards, and in MACO, that in biology, form follows function.
Anemones' have nematocysts for a reason: to capture prey
Anemones' have tentacles for a reason: to capture prey
Anemones' morphology are taylored as such for a reason: to capture prey
Shouldn't it then follow that anemones host symbiotic algae for a reason?
Cheers and I hope you all understand my post,
James Wiseman
[ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: jamesw ]
I was not addressing you as foolhardy, so please don't take my comments as personal. What I was stating was that I believe what you posted was not correct (IMO) and needed clarification/correction.
It is my most fervent wish that people do not interpret Dr. Ron's comments to mean that it OK to keep an anemone in sub-standard conditions. I am very dismayed to see that people are using his comments (which are correct when taken purely by themselves. I will address that in a sec) as an excuse to buy an anemone with the thought "Oh, I don't have adequate lighting, but the anemone will be fine, I will just feed it a lot."
I've got news for you folks, feeding an anemone the correct foods and getting it to accept them is NOT easy, and it requires more dedication and time than most reefers seem ready to dedicate to their tanks.
Ron was trying to make a single very technical point: an anemone can be kept in total darkness provided it's energy needs are met through feeding. Should this be done? Hell no! I would also like to point out that a tank with 2 40w flourescent lamps is essentially total darkness from an anemone's point of view.
Please keep in mind that I do not wish to debate Dr. Ron via proxy through you folks. Ron and I have discussed this before at MACNA and we are both in agreement about his point about feeding. Anemones do need to be fed. What I do not agree with is people paraphrasing Ron's in-depth statements and misinterpretting them, then spreading these misconceptions on various bulletin boards.
To repeat myself - Ron has made a very good point: Anemones need to be fed. People are taking this as: Regardless of my tank, I can keep an anemone as long as I try to feed it. This is a big "no-no."
Ron has stated many times on the bulletin boards, and in MACO, that in biology, form follows function.
Anemones' have nematocysts for a reason: to capture prey
Anemones' have tentacles for a reason: to capture prey
Anemones' morphology are taylored as such for a reason: to capture prey
Shouldn't it then follow that anemones host symbiotic algae for a reason?
Cheers and I hope you all understand my post,
James Wiseman
[ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: jamesw ]
Very nice post James. If Ron's remarks are read in their entirety, he always says to keep them in as natural a state as possible, which includes proper lighting. His feeding statements are strongly worded to oppose the "I have a MH light and don't need to feed my anemone" type statements and to provide biological type information, not a mandate to go keep your anemones in a bucket under the stairs!
In the wild you will NEVER see a clownfish without an anemone, and you will very rarely see an anemone without a clownfish or two or three...
I feed my anemone, and I feed my clownfish. BUT, I feed them different sized foods. The anemone gets 1/2 of a local baitfish called a spanish sardine abount once a week. This piece of fish is about the size of my clownfish...
so he can't really feed it to the anemone. In the wild, I would guess that most of the food the anemone gets either falls on it or is snagged at night or while passing by. I doubt the clownfish contribute much to the food put into the anemone, but I could be wrong.
The nitrogenous waste coming OUT of the clownfish is another story. That goes straight into the anemone.
HTH
James
I feed my anemone, and I feed my clownfish. BUT, I feed them different sized foods. The anemone gets 1/2 of a local baitfish called a spanish sardine abount once a week. This piece of fish is about the size of my clownfish...
The nitrogenous waste coming OUT of the clownfish is another story. That goes straight into the anemone.
HTH
James
James, I see you are rather passionate about this topic and I can understand as I also am very passionate about the animals we keep in our aquariums. Now although you talked to Dr Ron in person about this subject, as far as I know he hasen't gone back and ammended that post to convey the message you are trying to pass on. That thread was very clear to me what he was saying, an Anemone can live and thrive by being fed, in fact he even goes so far as to say that the zooxanihellae is not important to the anemone (likens it to candy if I remember correctly). Your opinion seems to be "zooxanihellae is an important part of the anemone's energy budget" , these IMO are two different statements that I find confusing. Now to say that Dr Ron is wrong about this is fine as you probably have reasons that you could debate, however to say that those that repeat what Dr Ron has said are misleading and foolharty is an entirely different matter. I won't be able to debate this subject on a scientific level with anyone because I just plain don't know enough, but that is why I look to Dr Ron and others for my education.
Steve
Steve
Yes, carbohydrate production from zooxanthellae is an important part of an anemone's energy budget. Without references, I can only guess at what the percentage of the anemone's daily budget it is, but I would guess more than 30% and probably more than 50%. I don't think I can be any more clear than that.
I also don't think this is at odds with what Dr. Shimek really meant, however you wish to interpret it.
Cheers
James
I also don't think this is at odds with what Dr. Shimek really meant, however you wish to interpret it.
Cheers
James
Well this is not the typical flame war that starts over an anemone post but it is ending on par. Not to take any thing away from Dr Ron but I was wondering how much of his "facts" are based on hypothesis and how much is based on his actually successfuly housing anemones in this condition? You stress a fragile invertebrate to that extreem and then want to talk about it could survive. I respect Dr. Ron but in an effort to make his point he gave some horrible advice and could have chose his words more appropriately. I saw this based on how many people have taken what he wrote and think he is advocating these animals do not need intense lighting. I think this misnomer was apparent when these animals shrivelled under N.O. lighting, fed or otherwise.
Goldmons remark that intense lighting is not something that reefers should take to heart in trying to give these animals The best possible chance for survival may influence some novice to put an anemone in an enviroment that is limiting to say the least. I unlike Goldmon did not wake up this morning looking to argue and have never seen any anemone in any place in the ocean that was not exposed to full sunlight. Now in all the years I have been diving there is a chance I missed one.
Goldmons remark that intense lighting is not something that reefers should take to heart in trying to give these animals The best possible chance for survival may influence some novice to put an anemone in an enviroment that is limiting to say the least. I unlike Goldmon did not wake up this morning looking to argue and have never seen any anemone in any place in the ocean that was not exposed to full sunlight. Now in all the years I have been diving there is a chance I missed one.
I don't know who is right. All I can comment on is my personal experience.
I have three anemones in my tank right now. I had ONE five months ago. If my anemone is reproducing, I take that as a signal that my guy likes where he is.
My anemones moved all around the tank when I first got them. They are now settled at either end of the tank, each near an intake for a powerhead or protein skimmer - they seem to like strong current nearby, but not on them. I target feed my anemones a half a piece of thawed, peeled shrimp about once every two weeks. They react to light and do completely different things at night as opposed to day. I do NOT have any host clownfish for either of my anemones. The one false perc I have must be a retard because he has no instictive desire to go anywhere near the anemones, which is unfortunate but it doesn't seem to be bothering either the clown or the anemones.
I have three anemones in my tank right now. I had ONE five months ago. If my anemone is reproducing, I take that as a signal that my guy likes where he is.
My anemones moved all around the tank when I first got them. They are now settled at either end of the tank, each near an intake for a powerhead or protein skimmer - they seem to like strong current nearby, but not on them. I target feed my anemones a half a piece of thawed, peeled shrimp about once every two weeks. They react to light and do completely different things at night as opposed to day. I do NOT have any host clownfish for either of my anemones. The one false perc I have must be a retard because he has no instictive desire to go anywhere near the anemones, which is unfortunate but it doesn't seem to be bothering either the clown or the anemones.
Fishaholic...
You must not have been on the internet long if you think there is a flame anywhere in these posts.
I remember back in the good old days when you could get called a "Son of a motherless goat" for just disagreeing with someone...
Now THAT'S a flame.
Just to clear a few things up:
A flame = personal attack = bad
Disagreement = discussion = good
I think this has been a very good thread so far, and I see NO personal attacks, so please don't bring it down by calling it flaming.
Mabu: I noticed that you have 480 watts of lighting over your 55g tank where you house your anemones. What type of anemones are they? My guess is bubble tipped...
Cheers
James
You must not have been on the internet long if you think there is a flame anywhere in these posts.
I remember back in the good old days when you could get called a "Son of a motherless goat" for just disagreeing with someone...
Just to clear a few things up:
A flame = personal attack = bad
Disagreement = discussion = good
I think this has been a very good thread so far, and I see NO personal attacks, so please don't bring it down by calling it flaming.
Mabu: I noticed that you have 480 watts of lighting over your 55g tank where you house your anemones. What type of anemones are they? My guess is bubble tipped...
Cheers
James
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