advice on host anemones

[Anonymous]

Well guys never figured I'd get such an outreach of advice. Thanks. I was just wondering about the host relationship since I have mananged to keep a carpet alive for little more than a year now and I was thinking of adding 2 small maroons for him and was wondering what would happen. So thanks for the education folks!

 

[Anonymous]

Two small maroons might be a bad idea, unless you know they are paired. Every pair I've seen is one small one (the male) and one large one (the female). Unless paired, maroons tend to kill each other. I also can't remember off hand if carpets host maroons, so double-check this with a book like Wilkerson's clownfish book (it gives lists of what fish are accepted by each anemone). I just can't remember whether a carpet will host a maroon (my pair are in a bubble-tipped anemone). I know that the common (oscillaris) clown will be hosted.

I am also impressed that you have managed to keep this thing alive without clownfish; I thought the anemones depended upon them more than vice-versa.

[This message has been edited by flounder (edited 16 February 2000).]

 

[Anonymous]

Yep, Flounder he is alive and well.. would love to send you pic but no email....for you that is... anyway... I have since given up the idea of the maroons.... my 3 reefs basically have no fish in them... I usually end up thinking why did I add that fish anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd love to see it

I have two maroons and a bubble-tip and they are the center attraction of my aquarium. I would definitely get your anemone a clownfish or two -- it can only help. They help feed the anemone in the sense that clownfish hoard food in the tenticles. This is apparently a captive behavior, so it is not clear that similar things happen in the wild, though there is soome suggestion the anemones thrive on the excretions of the clownfish.

If it is not too much bother, could you tell us how you have kept it alive please?

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by flounder (edited 17 February 2000).]

 

[Anonymous]

Well, this is kind of irrelevant now, but just in case the idea comes up again for you, flounder is right, two small maroons is a bad idea. According to Wilkerson's book, to have a realistic chance of having maroons pair up, you want one to be a lot larger than the other (her numbers are over 2x the size). If not you'll more than likely end up with at least one of them dead, possibly both. They really tear each other apart. The Amphiprion species are much less damaging to each other, so you can get two about the same size and the should pair off after a little bickering.

Which type of carpet anemone do you have? There are three different species that are all called 'carpet.' Giant carpet (Stichodactyla gigantea), Haddon's or saddle carpet (Stichodactyla haddoni), and Merten's carpet (Stichodactyla mertensii). That last one you're not likely to have, since they're not collected nearly as much, from what I understand. The giant carpet in the wild hosts these clownfish: Barrier Reef (A. akinynos), Two-band (A. bicinthus), Clark's (A. clarkii), Ocellaris (A. ocellaris), percula (A. percula), Pink Skunk (A. periderion), Australian (A. rubrocinctus).
The haddoni hosts these: Barrier Reef, Mauritian (A. chrysogaster), Orange-fin (A. chrysopterus), Clark's, Saddleback (A. polymnus), Sebae (A. sebae). Also, in captivity the haddoni has hosted these: Allard's (A. allardi), Ocellaris, and Percula.

So actually none of them is a host for maroon clowns. So now, if you decide to go with some fish for it, you can just go through that list and see what you like best. Since you've kept your anemone as long as you have, I'm going to guess that it's a haddoni, since they're usually much longer lived in aquaria than the giant carpets.

Also, if you do decide to pick up some clowns, I suggest you get Wilkerson's book. It's cheap, quick reading, and very informative.

HTH,
Dave

PS, I'm also curious about the parameters in your tank. thanks.

[This message has been edited by Wolverine (edited 16 February 2000).]

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Dave... will look up the book. For now I am leaving him alone since he has done so well on his own... by the way guys what is "HTH"?..heheh

 

[Anonymous]

Hope that/this helps

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[Anonymous]

Flounder,

I dont think the assumption that clownfishes will automatically feed anemone is correct. Some species of clown does and some don't. It migh also be up to individual fishes. For me, percular clown don't and I have to take them off my tank cause it keep janking pieces of shrimp I feed the anemone off. Kinda annoying. Clarkii does feed anemone.

 

[Anonymous]

Wilkerson notes in "Clownfishes" that the clownfish is most likely not feeding the anemone, but rather brining a stash of food to its 'home'. Often times you might see a clownfish bring some food to its anemone and then begin to eat some of that food if it is accessible. She also notes that this type of behavior has not been seen in the wild, but only in home aquariums.


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[Anonymous]

Exodus,

My percular yank off the piece of shrimps and drop it outside in the open. That's not feeding nor saving it for later.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not in disagreement with this, and have observed similar behaviors. What I said above, and apparently not very clearly, is that it was a by-product of hording food rather than a real behavior and was likely an artifact of generous feeding in captivity. I do think though the anemones benefit from the clownfish waste, from what I read. At any rate I thought that anemones really did need clownfish to thrive for reasons more subtle than having the fish bring food to them, so I was genuinely suprized to find out that is obviously not the case, at least here.

 

[Anonymous]

Heather,

I think maroon clown may or may not take the carpet. May be you should check the book first to see which one is more likely to stay in the carpet. I think anemone is beautiful and I have an addiction for them. I rather have a tank full of anemones than corals (working on it, I have 5 ).

 

[Anonymous]

Sohal,

There could be many reasons for this behavior. The clown could be just removing the piece of shrimp because he/she doesn't like it there (when I feed my anemones, the marroon is constantly harassing the anemone as if to say, "Open back up!"). The clown could also be biting off chunks of the food and in the process dislodging it from the anemone.

At any rate, as we all know, clownfish can be very weird.

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[Anonymous]

Flounder,

I think the clowns are necessary for the host anemones in the wild for a number of reasons. Some are relatively obvious - the clowns protect their anemones from butterfly fish predation. Clownfish urine and feces also provide a significant food source for wild anemones.

In my own research here at home, I have watched S. haddoni with and without clowns and I think that the clownfish provide an essential service in helping the anemone defecate. Egested remains will often remain stuck by mucus to the anemones surface unless the clowns are active. They may or may not actively move the stuff, but just their activity on the anemone seems to disperse it.

Clown activitiy on the surface of the oral disk of the anemone may also provide some of the important stimuli for initiation of the feeding response.

It is rather important to realize that neither the anemones nor the clowns are found in nature alone. It is likely this association has been going on for a goodly period of evolutionary time, and some of the costs and benefits might be pretty subtle and yet important. For this reason, I think it is important that only normal combinations of hosts and anemones should be encouraged.

Cheers, Ron

 

[Anonymous]

While we're at it...
The advice to obtain two individual P. biaculeatus of vastly different size (in order to obtain one male and one female) is well-meant, but may not work.

The size difference applies to Amphiprinids within a given family unit. If specimens on sale come from different locations, you could wind up with one young female and one older female by trusting the 'size rule'.

Obtaining a mated pair, as observable by their comport in your LFS tank, remains the best way to GET a pair.
HTH

 

[Anonymous]

horge, I guess I should have been more specific with the sizes. Wilkerson's book suggests that if you can't get a mated pair with maroons that you get one that's over 2.5" and one about 1.25". It would be pretty hard for any maroon that small to have become dominant enough to become female in any group. I assume that's the thought behind picking those sizes. I don't know about your LFS, but the ones here rarely have more than one at a time, so your method would be difficult to pull off.

With our ocellaris, we just got some that were as small as IA could safely ship, and we let them take care of the pairing (it's now about 8 months later, and there's no question which one is the female). It's a pity maroons are well behaved enough to make it that easy.

Dave

 

[Anonymous]

Dave-Wolverine:
Glad you gave absolute, rather than relative specs for attempting to set up a pair. I'd agree an individual under 3.5 cm in total length is unlikely to be a fully functioning female.

Regarding local availability: The saltwater shops in Cartimar each stock around 30 to 100 P. biaculeatus, when in season (maybe 4 months yearly). They sell for maybe P70.00 or less each at 2" or smaller --that would be about US$1.75 each or less. There's really only one major cluster of such shops in Metro Manila (the aforementioned Cartimar, which counts about 30 retailers), and is closely associated with the acclimation facilities of exporters. Other shops about the metropolis are less well-stocked. Of course, there's this nearby place where you can technically get it for free

--conscience allowing.

How much do they really sell for there? The prices on MO websites are way higher than at your LFS right?

 

[Anonymous]

Horge,

An average price for a Premnas at a local fish store here in Houston Texas is approx. $20 US.

Scary, eh?

Cheers
James Wiseman

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Reefs.org Channel Operator

 

[Anonymous]

You should try the San Franscisco Bay Area if you think THAT is overpriced. Since people are quite happy to shell out $700K for a fixer-upper two-bedroom house, $35 for a maroon or $3.75 for a gallon of milk or $6.50 for a box of cereal goes without comment.

I got my maroon pair from Flying Fish Express and was very happy. They went into my bubble-tipped anemone instantly.

 

[Anonymous]

As long as we are on the Clown fish subject...
I wanted to ask if it would be possible to have a pair of maroons, and a pair of skunks in the opposite sides of a 29 gallon reef tank. I might have one tang too and that's about it for fish. 2 different kinds of anemones. I have't started the tank yet.
If it's possible, should I introduce them to the tank at the same time, or different times. Who first??
Thanks for helping a starter.