Fish Acclimation and Packing Techniques

[tommyfishpr]

I am researching the about the best possible techniques for fish acclimation and packing.

- fish acclimation from direct import ( not wholesalers ).

currently my form of acclimation is basically drip acclimation where all fish and inverts are acclimated for about 3 hours in the drip form. Every 45 minutes aprox. I will increase the drip until 3 hours.

I have heard of other methods which includes the injection oxygen or co2 ... not sure what it was now.


- packing. Also want to know what is the best practice for packing. 1. Do you use same water that is recirculating in the system or do you use special water just for the packing... and if so how is this prepared. Also wondering about the bags... amount of air etc... we currently use clipping machines (not rubber bands). Should bags be partially filled with oxygen or should they be filled like a balloon really tight or will this creat bag popping due to air pressures on the plane or the alike....

thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[swsaltwater]

On tranships if the water is really foul I skip drip and only temp acclimate, you have to decide if the ammonia in the water is bad enought to kill them before the lack of acclimation will ... Ammonia Detox only goes so far IMO. If the water stinks I change method.. Are you oxygenating the fish on a 3 hour drip?

For me the best method is a 45 min drip followed by a 5-10 min FW dip(PH and Temp matched) if the fish have any signs of parasites. I use a seachem ammonia detox for the drip. I see a lot of customers doing 1-2 hour drips and loosing the fish due to O2 levels. I think anything longer then 45 mins needs an air stone especially if the container is cramed in with fish. I have seen a lot of procedures on 104th and most of what I see is a very fast acclimation from tranship to new water. In fact most transhipped fish are rebagged with new water and oxygen in LA before moving on, I do not think they acclimate for that but I can't speak for all wholesalers/transhippers.

 

[tommyfishpr]

Thanks for replying swsaltwater. I am hoping to learn some new stuff via this thread.

On tranships if the water is really foul I skip drip and only temp acclimate, you have to decide if the ammonia in the water is bad enought to kill them before the lack of acclimation will ... Ammonia Detox only goes so far IMO. If the water stinks I change method.. Are you oxygenating the fish on a 3 hour drip?

I do not tranship. I import and leave the fish on my facility. During the 3 hour drip I do not oxygenate by using airstones etc... basically the fish are cut out into Styrofoam boxes using the same water they cam in and water is then drip via some very small valves. The water drips from 12+ inches above so its breaks water surface creating some oxygen but other than that I do not oxygenate.

For me the best method is a 45 min drip followed by a 5-10 min FW dip(PH and Temp matched) if the fish have any signs of parasites. I use a seachem ammonia detox for the drip. I see a lot of customers doing 1-2 hour drips and loosing the fish due to O2 levels. I think anything longer then 45 mins needs an air stone especially if the container is cramed in with fish. I have seen a lot of procedures on 104th and most of what I see is a very fast acclimation from tranship to new water. In fact most transhipped fish are rebagged with new water and oxygen in LA before moving on, I do not think they acclimate for that but I can't speak for all wholesalers/transhippers.

When we do the 3 hour drip we do not loose many fish in the acclimation. I think it is working pretty good but I heard that now days they were doing some other methods that are more "efficient" and even faster. Just trying to figure out what it is. In regards to what you mention of FW dips or the seachem ammonia detox.... is this something that gets done / can get done when you 60+ boxes? It seems like a good preventive treatment but it seems like a very time consuming thing... would not mind hearing more details on this.

So what would be the most important aspect of acclimation? Getting the PH at the same range? Giving the fish the needed o2? or would be everything? and if it is everything then is 3 hours good enough anyways. I mean for example if I receive fish in 1.025 salinity and my system is at 20 would that not be bad enough already even if its in 3 hours? Same thing with other parameters. Temperature from 83 to 79 again in just 3 hours... it all still seems pretty drastic so I wonder what is the factor most important that needs to be considered.

 

[Anonymous]

We match temp and salinity of the system ahead of time, and do about a 45 minute acclimation--we dilute the water down to 1 to 1 shipping water in approx. 20 minutes, remove 75% of the total volume, and then dilute down 3 parts to 1. The end result is that they are in about 10% shipping water before we net/bag them out of the acclimation container. I really don't see a need to do such long acclimation times with fish if the temp and salinity are close (within 3-4 degrees/ppt).

 

[Anonymous]

Getting pH in range is pretty important in my own experience, unless the pH in the bag is really off. But not thinking about that as one of the first issues can get you a lot of dead fish. 60+ boxes is a HELL of a lot of boxes of fish, are those all salties?

 

[Anonymous]

We match temp and salinity of the system ahead of time, and do about a 45 minute acclimation--we dilute the water down to 1 to 1 shipping water in approx. 20 minutes, remove 75% of the total volume, and then dilute down 3 parts to 1. The end result is that they are in about 10% shipping water before we net/bag them out of the acclimation container. I really don't see a need to do such long acclimation times with fish if the temp and salinity are close (within 3-4 degrees/ppt).

Are you talking in your aquarium biz, or at the public aquarium you work at?

 

[Anonymous]

We match temp and salinity of the system ahead of time, and do about a 45 minute acclimation--we dilute the water down to 1 to 1 shipping water in approx. 20 minutes, remove 75% of the total volume, and then dilute down 3 parts to 1. The end result is that they are in about 10% shipping water before we net/bag them out of the acclimation container. I really don't see a need to do such long acclimation times with fish if the temp and salinity are close (within 3-4 degrees/ppt).

Are you talking in your aquarium biz, or at the public aquarium you work at?

Hmmm, pretty much both. Why?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure about other wholesalers/exporters but we way over packed for Public Aquaria since they didn't really care about freight costs. Nothing negative was implied Matt

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure about other wholesalers/exporters but we way over packed for Public Aquaria since they didn't really care about freight costs. Nothing negative was implied Matt

Ah, gotcha. I haven't really noticed a difference in packing to be honest, but we deal with the big wholesalers where the person on the phone and the person bagging the fish are probably pretty far removed. You guys had a little more personal touch.

When we do get VIF from the niche collectors they are packed unbelievably well, more space than I get on an airplane, and with battery powered life support for the trip. :lol: The most recent shipment came in with 7.9 pH, 0 ammonia or nitrite, over 100% DO, 78 degrees...we probably could have just dropped them right in the tank.

 

[Anonymous]

How are you getting salinity readings from LA wholesalers? The salesmen actually know that days reading??

 

[Anonymous]

How are you getting salinity readings from LA wholesalers? The salesmen actually know that days reading??

We check it in the bags. They keep them pretty consistent.

 

[Anonymous]

Ah, I was under the impression from your post you had the info before hand and had the systems prepped when the fish landed. I guess that still can be the way you do it though if they keep it that consistent

 

[JeremyR]

Consistently low.. heh.

 

[Anonymous]

25 ppt on average, maybe +/- 1-2 ppt...

 

[tommyfishpr]

thanks for your inputs....

I think that what we are doing is ok then. Maybe not necessary as far as the time goes but it seems that at the end the best is achieved.

 

[sdcfish]

In my opinion, if you had to choose one procedure as the most important, I would say neutralizing the ammonia is number 1. All imported fish have very high ammonia levels, and it can be super toxic and damage the fish beyond repair if not neutralized.

If you use CO2 to lower the ph...you definately run the risks of low oxygen in the acclimation water and that causes further damage.

Air stones are great, but they raise ph and it's hard to control how fast that rises using airstones, unless you are monitoring it, and using controlers or lot's of labor to make sure the ph is rising at the pace you want.

Good thread.

Eric

 

[PeterIMA]

Eric, Good point about carbon dioxide use to lower the pH. Most fishes can withstand a rapid rise in pH. So, I agree that the use of carbon dioxide to lower pH in the receiving water may be more harmful than it is worth.

As far as ammonium in the bags (that becomes ammonia as the pH rises), I suggest that you or your suppliers use an ammonia binding agent in the bags during shipment, so that it is not necessary to add the ammonia binding agent when the bags are opened.

Peter

 

[naesco]

I have to tell you guys that this is the best industry co-operation on a subject I have ever seen on this board.

Keep it up.

Thank you

 

[Anonymous]

Eric, Good point about carbon dioxide use to lower the pH. Most fishes can withstand a rapid rise in pH. So, I agree that the use of carbon dioxide to lower pH in the receiving water may be more harmful than it is worth.

As far as ammonium in the bags (that becomes ammonia as the pH rises), I suggest that you or your suppliers use an ammonia binding agent in the bags during shipment, so that it is not necessary to add the ammonia binding agent when the bags are opened.

Peter

I'm curious, even though it's been.. let's just say a very long time since I ever bagged or packed a box; what ammonia binding agent can be used with saltwater?

Would you say the ammonia itself is more harmful, the shift in pH, or the combination is what seems to push them over?

 

[tommyfishpr]

Eric, Good point about carbon dioxide use to lower the pH. Most fishes can withstand a rapid rise in pH. So, I agree that the use of carbon dioxide to lower pH in the receiving water may be more harmful than it is worth.

As far as ammonium in the bags (that becomes ammonia as the pH rises), I suggest that you or your suppliers use an ammonia binding agent in the bags during shipment, so that it is not necessary to add the ammonia binding agent when the bags are opened.

Peter

Yes, that is the technique I heard about... carbon dioxide, I learned a few days ago and you just mentioned it... using it to lower ph in receiving water I then thought this was not a practical way.. at least for me.

I am very interested about the ammonia binding agent in the bags during shipment both for receiving from suppliers and even for me sending to customers. More on this would be great.