Coral Aquaculture

[myrphie]

I've been wondering what the view is on domestic (US) coral aquaculture within the industry. I know there are some people doing it on a larger scale but, as someone who has spent most of his time in retail stores, I'm curious what the market is like on the wholesale side for domestically grown corals. Are wholesalers and other such distributors really interested in buying from greenhouses? And are there really many (any?) such operations stateside who produce corals in the volume wholesalers want?

I know ORA does a large volume and distributes to retail stores on their own, but that's really the only operation I'm aware of remotely on that scale.

Any input would be enlightening, I'm sure.

 

[camaroracer214]

the problem is two fold:

1.) marciulturing is so much cheaper than land based aquaculture, even if you use the sun for your light source. you have to buy/lease land, construct a facility, and obtain the corals themselves. mariculturists simply use the ocean as well as existing stock that was once wild to replenish their supply.

2.)once corals (especially hard corals...mostly sps) grow out in a aquaculture facility they really begin to take on non-normal growth forms. eric borneman and i talked at great length about this a while back. once a coral is exposed to different growth conditions it begins to grow in different shapes, patterns, thicknesses, etc. maricultured corals are nothing more than corals propagated and grown in a "wild" environment. they are exposed to somewhat similar water conditions/parameters and tend to keep their same or somewhat similar growth patters.

 

[JeremyR]

Point one is pretty true.. growing corals is expensive.. and the greenhouse bit really needs to be done in the south, heating a northern greenhouse is pretty expensive.

There are some other sides to point 2. As far as the growing in different shapes.. I'm not sure that matters. Once they get into hobbyist tanks, the mariculture ones are going to shift anyways, and may end up looking completely different in different peoples tanks. Also, because they aren't grown in closed systems, the mariculture corals are not as aquarium ready or as hardy as corals that someone like ORA has been growing for many generations.

There is also another side to the mariculture.. pests. The famous bali aquaculture corals come with alot of hitchhikers.. monti nudis, acro flatworms.. a properly run aquaculture facility that cleans & quarantines prospective broodstock will be free of such things. While it's easy enough for the home hobbyist or retail store to deal with red bugs, the flatworms & nudis can be a real problem, especially if you don't really know what to look for as far as eggs & such.

So there are +'s & -'s to both methods. I do think it would really be extremely difficult to make money selling 100% captive aquaculture to wholesalers as you have to lower your price over what you would sell to retailers and the overhead isn't going to lower itself.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the market is there, but competing on price is going to be difficult.

One of the benefits of domestic culture is the corals are acclimated to aquarium conditions and tend to do better, faster than maricultured corals which, besides the pest problem, often don't do well long term in aquaria.

 

[Anonymous]

ORA is by far not the only game. There are several right around the same size and even more half the size A little digging on the forums and website will yield quite a few hits

 

[myrphie]

Thanks for the input so far everyone!

 

[kreeger1]

ORA just happens to be on top of there game right no though.

 

[Anonymous]

ORA just happens to be on top of their game right now though.

Do you receive shipments from them on a regular basis? Do you get what you order every time or do you have to pester to get even an a smidgen of what you ordered?

 

[Ben1]

Doesnt ORA also demand you order $200 of their fish before you get to order the SPS frags?

I deal with that in the toy business doing business with Ganz who distributes webkins, a hot plush toy, and its a pain in the rear. They are being sued over it recently though

http://www.playthings.com/article/CA6577499.html

Not sure if the same could apply to ORA, not that I want to see them sued I love thier stuff.

The only other ORA like company I have heard my LFS do business with is http://www.thecoralnursery.com/newsite/

 

[Anonymous]

That's a little different. They are requiring a $1000 minimum of other stuff and then they'll THINK about letting you buy the goods. ORA will give you whatever goods they have after you meet their requirements. I'm glad ORA imposed the rule.

 

[Raskal311]

How big are these guys? Based on the pictures looks like a fairly small operation, nothing close to ORA. All most seem like a small hobby garage type business.

 

[JeremyR]

ORA just happens to be on top of their game right now though.

Do you receive shipments from them on a regular basis? Do you get what you order every time or do you have to pester to get even an a smidgen of what you ordered?

Seems like kind of a strange question.. I've never had a problem getting more than a "smidgen" of what I ordered from ORA, and the other shops in my area all buy from them as well, and all get even the new corals. I've seen you mention negative things about ORA a few times, and I'm not sure what your angle is here. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is how it reads to me.

ORA as a company may have hit a couple of speedbumps in the past, but look at the cards they were dealt beginning in 2004.. how many other farms would have survived multiple hurricanes like that? I've seen a major improvement in all areas from fish health to shipping methods in the last couple of years. They go to great lengths to produce corals that are pest free and fully aquacultured & encrusted.. not fresh frags glued for 30 days from wild colonies like most other "aquaculture". I've seen fish farms come & go, pretty much only ORA has been steady throughout. There are other farms and if people want to buy from them then that is fine, but none of them offer the range of fish, inverts, & corals that ORA does.

 

[naesco]

I think the market is there, but competing on price is going to be difficult.

One of the benefits of domestic culture is the corals are acclimated to aquarium conditions and tend to do better, faster than maricultured corals which, besides the pest problem, often don't do well long term in aquaria.

With respect, In my opinion, with the exception of ultra-coloured SpS varieties, there is no market.
Aqua-cultured coral facilities offshore are finding it difficult to find buyers for SPS as they did in the past, and prices are dropping to meet the competition in the market.
I don't know the situation with LFS.

 

[Raskal311]

Problem is it’s the same stuff week after week, there are only a few dozen types to choose from and many of which are nearly identical. There also aren’t enough new hobbyists joining the ranks (sps collecting) to keep the demand going. The people who have been collecting sps for just a little while either got it or down want it.


I'm with Naesco, the market isn't really all that big. You have to really hit a nitch market and be really quick to change with the current trend.

 

[naesco]

Problem is it’s the same stuff week after week, there are only a few dozen types to choose from and many of which are nearly identical. There also aren’t enough new hobbyists joining the ranks (sps collecting) to keep the demand going. The people who have been collecting sps for just a little while either got it or down want it.

I'm with Naesco, the market isn't really all that big. You have to really hit a nitch market and be really quick to change with the current trend.

First of all nice website. I see you have some spectaclar corals available in SPS and LPS.

Have you seen the same decline is LPS?
Thanks
Wayne

 

[Raskal311]

Problem is it’s the same stuff week after week, there are only a few dozen types to choose from and many of which are nearly identical. There also aren’t enough new hobbyists joining the ranks (sps collecting) to keep the demand going. The people who have been collecting sps for just a little while either got it or down want it.

I'm with Naesco, the market isn't really all that big. You have to really hit a nitch market and be really quick to change with the current trend.

First of all nice website. I see you have some spectaclar corals available in SPS and LPS.

Have you seen the same decline is LPS?
Thanks
Wayne

Demand is down but still strong.

 

[Anonymous]

ORA just happens to be on top of their game right now though.

Do you receive shipments from them on a regular basis? Do you get what you order every time or do you have to pester to get even an a smidgen of what you ordered?

Seems like kind of a strange question.. I've never had a problem getting more than a "smidgen" of what I ordered from ORA, and the other shops in my area all buy from them as well, and all get even the new corals. I've seen you mention negative things about ORA a few times, and I'm not sure what your angle is here. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is how it reads to me.

ORA as a company may have hit a couple of speedbumps in the past, but look at the cards they were dealt beginning in 2004.. how many other farms would have survived multiple hurricanes like that? I've seen a major improvement in all areas from fish health to shipping methods in the last couple of years. They go to great lengths to produce corals that are pest free and fully aquacultured & encrusted.. not fresh frags glued for 30 days from wild colonies like most other "aquaculture". I've seen fish farms come & go, pretty much only ORA has been steady throughout. There are other farms and if people want to buy from them then that is fine, but none of them offer the range of fish, inverts, & corals that ORA does.

I think your reading too much into something that isn't there Jeremy. I highly respect ORA and what they do and anyone that knows me will tell you the same. As I do not currently order from them myself what I asked is a very valid question, isn't asking questions what the forums are about? Should I not ask??? Having worked wholesale for many years I know filling 100% orders is hard thus me asking about their fill.

I find it rather odd you didn't say a single thing about this in person when you had the chance this last weekend @ MACNA. There was no better time to address the question/problem you had then face to face @ MACNA.

 

[JeremyR]

I didn't see the post till I got home.

Asking about fill is one thing.. insinuating that one might have to "pester" to get a "smidgen" is what caught my eye.

In any event, I'm glad you do in fact highly respect them and now my question is answered as well.

 

[Anonymous]

:lol: I a bit embarrassed to say I didn't even think to look at when you posted. I just assumed since there was a few below it it wasn't all that recent

 

[geekdafied]

You have to really hit a nitch market and be really quick to change with the current trend.

Im a little late jumping in this conversation... Trends change all the time in this industry. If you're not quick to jump in, it will pass you by. The good thing is it goes full circle.