Why do on & offline fish shops toy with newbies?

[Anonymous]

This is from Company xyz's weekly specials email:

7. Tank Raised Pilotfish (Gnathanodon speciosus) - Hardy, great
beginner fish
$15.00 was $24.00 save $9.00

And this is what you get when you click on the provided link:

Family: Carangidae
Origin: Indo-Pacific, Red Sea
Size: Up to 36 inches
Diet: Carnivore
Tank Set-up: Marine: Coral or rock, plants
Reef Compatible: No
Tank Conditions: 72-78ºF; sg 1.020-1.025; pH 8.1-8.4
Minimum Tank Capacity: 400 gallon
Light: High
Temperament: Peaceful
Swimming Level: Top
Care Level: Easy
Reproduction: Egg Spawner


The Pilotfish, also known as the Golden Trevally or Golden Jack, is shimmering metallic-gold with black vertical bands across the body.

It requires a 400 gallon or larger aquarium because it grows rapidly. It is a schooling fish and prefers other Pilofish as tank mates. It will eat smaller fish.

The Pilotfish diet should consist of prepared meaty foods for carnivores, and live fish such as shrimp, scallops, and marine flesh.

Due to variations among each species, livestock may not look identical to the image provided.

Please Note (R): This species is not covered under our 7-day guarantee and should only be purchased by the expert marine aquarist, zoo, or research institution. Species with an (R) designation either do not ship well, grow too large for the average aquarium, or do not acclimate well to the home aquarium.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One would think that the sellers would benefit from happy, informed additions to the hobby. I don't even want to know what the average people spend in a ten year period is and I'm sure it's plenty. I just don't see why LFS and OLS jerk the new people around and try like hell to sell them inappropriate livestock.

[ February 10, 2002: Message edited by: MaryHM ]</p>

 

[danmhippo]

And a group of 5 would look sooooo good in a 20G tank.................when they are 1/2" big....

 

[naesco]

IMO we have to become more proactive against poor or even fraudulent LFS.
If they tell you the large Naso is not eating because it has just been fed and it does not eat in your tank, we should encourage removal and return of the fish wherever possible.
Ditto for LFS selling the very difficult species as hardy or eats anything, is fine in a 50 gallon etc. and other examples of fraud.
We have to educate newbies that it is OK to return fish and coral that they have been sucked into buying.
When we see a newbie getting sucked in, we have to offer advice notwithstanding that we p*** off the LFS in become involved.
We have to give them h*** when they do it and give them h*** when we see these impossible to keep species in their tanks.
Reefs.org and other board are perfect opportunities to offer this advice.
Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Because people like to do the bare minimum. Why read books yourself when you can just ask the kid at the store?

For some reason people think they can buy a living animal without knowing a thing about it. To me it's like buying a car without knowing how to drive. The salesman could care less about your driving ability as long as you buy the car.

 

[naesco]

I agree that newbies need to be better informed before they buy.
However we have the right to expect an honest answer from a LFS salesperson. If we find the answer to be false whether intentional or through the LFS ignorance, we have the right to return the product for a full refund.
IMO only when we encourage newbies to do that, will they clean up their act.
Again, I am not attempting to tar every LFS with the same brush.

 

[MaryHM]

Had to edit the orginal post. The rules are no names!! And that includes links to specific companies- especially when we are being critical of them!

 

[fishfarmer]

Because pilotfish are purty

.

 

[Chucker]

FWIW, I emailed the same company a year or two ago, and asked about the prudence of placing items from their R list in their Corner for sale and unusual items, since at the time, the R in the listings there was not linked to anything. When I originally wrote, I got the runaround. There now is a popup explaining the policy in each item listing. Baby steps I guess.....

 

[Anonymous]

I emailed them about it. I've not got a reply, but I don't always answer my friday emails either.

------

Sorry, Mary. I wasn't paying attention.

 

[Anonymous]

caveat emptor

 

[neurotech]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MaryHM:
<strong>Had to edit the orginal post. The rules are no names!! And that includes links to specific companies- especially when we are being critical of them!

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why is that Mary?

 

[Chucker]

Quite simply, we don't retain legal staff, and have no desire to get sued ala the PetS Warehouse debacle.

 

[Anonymous]

Just to be a devils advocate here... other than "beginner" fish and understandably a beginner is not going to have a 400+ gallon system, they DID provide the proper info.

the disclaimer they added at the bottom of the text description was only because it matched the criteria of "grow too large for the average aquarium" and it's a canned disclaimer for ease of use.

IMO they provided all the necessary info, certaintly a hell of a lot more than any other OLS I've ever seen.

However since I doubt they prescreen their customers and are somewhat limited in that capability anyway I'd question why the even bother to bring that species in. I've seen the same fish from the same company they bought it from. Unfortunately sometimes this company acts on the if you breed it, they will come mentality (there are some other underlying reasons as well, but I won't get into them here). So the ideal is for a dealer to look at a species and evaluate its suitability. Who are my customers, what animals are they capable of keeping alive, what animals ship well etc. When I saw the Golden Trevally tank raised on a availability list the first thing I did other than recalling how big the schools of them were at the Aquarium of the Pacific in Long Beach was to grab a few texts and look up the animal's characteristics. It was quite obvious that the animal was NOT suitable to the average customer and that I was NOT going to be bringing them in.

[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: MickAv8r ]</p>

 

[naesco]

Good for you, Tom.

 

[randy holmes-farley]

Chucker:

Can you explain this no names policy a bit more.


Does it apply to all forums at reefs.org?

If someone asks about Seachem Reefbuilder, I presume that it is OK to say whatever comes to mind about it?

And if someone asks for recommendations for products to do X, I presume that it is OK to say "Seachem Reefbuilder" is good, bad, or otherwise?

FWIW, I provide links to companies web sites all of the time to show people information about a product. Are you claiming that I can't do this?

Thanks

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Randy Holmes-Farley ]</p>

 

[Chucker]

There is no problem with linking to a product when describing it. The point is that we do not wish to be sued for libel, as I described before. The idea here is to discuss retailer and industry policy in this forum, but not coming out and naming the facility to protect reefs.org from lawsuits. You can read more about the PetS Warehouse suit here if you like.

 

[Anonymous]

I dont think it is anything different than all the people on here who say "skilters suck", etc... etc...

Chris

 

[Chucker]

Chris, the question isn't about what you think, it's what the lawyers think.

 

[randy holmes-farley]

chucker:

I don't mean to debate the policy. I just don't understand what it is.

Does this policy only apply in this forum?

Does this policy preclude me from saying things like

"poklidyrt W made by redyrt company is not going to accomplish what it says on the product label"

 

[Chucker]

<strong>The idea here is to discuss retailer and industry policy in this forum, but not coming out and naming the facility to protect reefs.org from lawsuits. </strong>

That's pretty much the policy right there, Randy. Have at it in the other forums!