Problems finding new wholesaler

[MaryHM]

Amen, Kylen.

 

[Anonymous]

This whole argument regarding Mary selling direct to the hobbiest while questioning her business ethics seem bizarre. Mary has every right to sell to whom she wants just the same as any retailer can purchase their product from any wholesaler they choose. That is what a free market is all about. I don't feel that Mary is harming any retailer at all. Obviously, if a hobbiest is having to aproach Mary to purchase quality net-caught animals, it speaks about the quality of the retailer in that area.

The bigger question that must be asked, with respect to business ethics, is why are wholesalers continuing to purchase and sell cyanide caught fish?

 

[DBM]

Kyle, does this mean you're buying your fish from Marivi now?

 

[Tim Tessier]

The bigger question that must be asked, with respect to business ethics, is why are wholesalers continuing to purchase and sell cyanide caught fish?

Probably because the retailers and hobbyists want them. Heck most of the local stores sell angels, tangs and triggers from Indo. They and the local online store have them transhipped in because the fish are cheap. Then when the fish get diseases I see these "save the blue tangs from this LFS" posts on Canreef. Even the local online store tells people in bold red letters that "We do not purchase, or sell drug (cyanide) caught fish." and yet they list the majority of their fish as being from Philiippines/Indonesia (P/I). I on the other hand exclusively source my angels, tangs and triggers from the P/I from Marivi, they do not. She is the only Philippine exporter that I trust. I used to pay three times the price for a net caught Coral Beauty than the cyanide peddling stores pay for their Coral Beauties. LFS's used to tell me that my fish were healthy but too expensive. Go figure.


This brings me to another point. A true story about a friend in BBY named Glen. One January he decided to calculate how many $ he spent stocking his 280 gallon tank with fish the previous year. It came to almost 1500$. He then calculated the cost of the fish that were alive in his tank. Came to 150$. He bought all the fish from the LFS on Kingsway near Edmonds because they had the best prices. So that Coral Beauty ended up costing him 249.95. btw He was breeding occelaris, maroons and orchid dottybacks. Some people will drive 10 miles and spend 3.00 in gas to save 2$ on a fish that will die anyway.

Maybe I'll sell Cyanide caught MH light bulbs. Or better yet, I'll sell cyanoacrylate(crazy glue) glue for doing frags to create your own captive grown reef. Whoa, thats a juxtaposition, cyanide used to save the reefs. :lol:

Sometimes trying to do things right leads to serious amounts of frustration. :lol:

Cheers,
Tim

ps James or Bill. Could you please add an emoticon. I could have used sardonic laughter. :wink:

 

[kylen]

DBM,

Yes I am.

Kyle

 

[DBM]

Good for you! Now the 3 three of us can all fight over the same fish! Hopefully there will be some training done soon so we can actually get what we need to compete with the Indonesian importer here.

Doug

 

[Anonymous]

Mary, I would recommend that you close this thread. You are starting to show your true self and that may not be good business. I for one am glad you have the storefront only policy or I may have supported you and your "It's all about me" business.

And to Dizzy, Mary is competing with retail shops. I find it hard to believe she checks every address to see if they are within 50 miles of one of her customers. Heck she did not even know Dr. Mac was garage based and it is all over these boards that he is. Also how many people post on here about driving 100+ miles to get to a good store? That kind of blows the 50-mile thing out of the water.

In the best interest of this thread and the purpose of this board, this will be my last post on this topic. Mary, you can have the last word then please close this thread.

Bryan

Troll, get over it. Mary is the most ethical wholesaler I have ever met. She goes far beyond what most others do and she does a great job at it. Occasionaly someone here or there gets by her policies like Dr. Mac. I dont see why anyone has to get pissed off about it since she is in business to make money and can operate any way she damn well pleases. I am glad she tries to operate as ethically as possible rather than behave like most of the other wholesalers around.

 

[dizzy]

Good for you! Now the 3 three of us can all fight over the same fish! Hopefully there will be some training done soon so we can actually get what we need to compete with the Indonesian importer here.

Doug

Doug, Tim, Kylen,

It is good to hear Marivi is getting so much support north of the border. I don't know of any American wholesalers that are currently supporting her, but Steve Robinson is moving into larger facilites, and surely will in the future. Tim how do you feel about wholesalers selling directly to hobbyists? I get the feeling Kylen supports it, while Doug does not think it is a good business decision. I'm personally afraid many wholesalers will follow suit at the expense of the wholesale distribution chain.

Mitch Gibbs

 

[Bryan Thompson]

All right, this is enough. There is no room here for name-calling. I said I would not post again to this thread but since you decided to start name bashing I must defend myself.

I started this thread with a simple question about the industry. "Why do some wholesalers refuse to sell to home based businesses?" The question was directed to Mary because she currently has this policy. It was not a personal attack.

I feel personally that they are preventing some of these home-based businesses from competing with quality fish. I do not think it is right for a wholesaler to take sides in this classical debate between storefronts and home shops.

I do agree that everyone has a right to sell to whomever they want but this prevents some of us dealing with a wholesale that is supposed to be ethical. I agree that cyanide catching is wrong but when you can't buy form someone who ensures their fish are not caught this way then what can you do? I believe that when you setup and aquarium you have a huge responsibility to the animals you put into them. I have spent my own money and time setting up a free club here in Indiana to help people learn about the right way to take care of their systems and animals. Check it out. http://blowfishaquatics.com/indianacoralclub.htm

My primary business is in tank-raised corals. I also setup and maintain several aquariums around the Indianapolis area. My interest in finding a new wholesaler was to get a source of quality fish to put into these tanks. I have the coral but need the fish. I also sell coral to several pet shops here in Indiana. I sell to some of the same stores that Mary does. The shop owners buy from her for the same reason they buy from me. The livestock is healthier and lives better in an aquarium.

To sum this up, I personally have nothing against Mary but think that her policy is preventing the expansion of the very thing she is promoting. Providing the hobby with quality net caught fish. So before you start the name calling, lets look at all the facts.

Bryan Thompson

 

[kylen]

Mitch,

For the record I don't sell direct to the hobbiest. It creates more issues with respect to taxation that I don't want to deal with, but simply I don't believe in it. What I do support is Mary's right to sell to anyone and run her business her way that's all.

Kyle

 

[dizzy]

kylen,

That's fair enough. I also think Mary has the right to run her business as she sees fit. So does everyone else. I'm not wanting to pick on Mary. At this year's MACNA in Ft. Worth I learned that some of the LA wholesalers are starting to sell to the hobbyists on weekends. The one that surprised me the most was SDC. I had recently read an article in Pet Age where they were doing $5,000,000-7,000,000 a year in business. According to my friend that lives in LA SDC was not the only one doing this. It just seems to me that some unwritten rules are being broken. Everyone can do as they see fit, but IMO retailers have a right to know what the new rules are.

Mitch Gibbs

 

[Tim Tessier]

For the record I don't sell direct to the hobbiest. It creates more issues with respect to taxation that I don't want to deal with, but simply I don't believe in it. What I do support is Mary's right to sell to anyone and run her business her way that's all.

Kyle

Kyle,

Just off the top of my head what is so hard about doing Provincial tax? It is easier than GST, which you now do, and is only applicable in BC instead of all of Canada.

You may not sell direct to hobbyists but you do sell to the online store that says their Indonesian angels, triggers and tangs are cyanide free. They sell wholesale to the public and you support them in this. For example they were selling Captive Bred Neon Dottyback from ORA for 42$CAD(26USD) while the LFS 5 minutes away from them was selling ORA's Neon Dottybacks for 74.95CAD(48USD), a legitimate retail price. Your website lists you as the Western Canadian Distributor for ORA. I on the other hand sold the ORA dottybacks to the LFS. I have supported ORA for four years.

. Tim how do you feel about wholesalers selling directly to hobbyists? I get the feeling Kylen supports it, while Doug does not think it is a good business decision. I'm personally afraid many wholesalers will follow suit at the expense of the wholesale distribution chain.

Mitch,

I have supported Marivi for well over a year, when her prices were more expensive than the other exporters. Kyle and Doug did not want to use her because she was too expensive. Now that MAC has betrayed her by certifying the cyaniders she has had to lower her prices and is now attractive to them. Hence they now have done 2 or 3 small orders with her.

To answer your question. I know that wholesalers have the potential to unfairly compete with LFS's. If the wholesalers work their retail pricing so as to be the same price as a LFS then that is just standard competition. Also some LFS will only order certain items while a wholesaler will carry a wide selection. Some customers will not even enter a LFS because of personality conflicts with staff members or the owner. Should a wholesaler be forced to lose out on that potential business?

I have noticed that some LFS will "Cherry pick" certain items and then order regular bread and butter stuff from the big wholesalers or tranship it because it is cheaper. I feel that if a LFS likes the quality and ethics of a wholesaler that they should support that wholesaler with their business.

Hence the Wholesale chain is being broken on both ends. I have also noticed that some exporters sell to retailers instead of just to wholesalers. Wholesalers can take the time to properly acclimate the animals while a retailer might get busy with customers and the animals will sit in the boxes needlessly.

The internet has completely thrown the whole distribution chain for all industries into chaos. It will be interesting to see what will evolve in ten years. It seems that in the US it is "Volume rules" so you get online stores blowing out dry goods at 1% to 5% margins just to do the volume. I know SeaChem and PFO operate this way. More volume = better pricing. In Germany there seems to be set pricing structures. If you are a hobbyist this is the price, negotiable by 3%(by German law). If you are a reseller you get this price. If you sell to reseller you get a different price. Every one works on the same playing field.

Just some thoughts,
Tim

 

[kylen]

Tim,

Just a couple of points to clarify your posting. The online store to which you referred, has a brick and mortar storefront and they sell retail (very cheaply mind you). I have no say in how they price their product, nor should I. They buy product from me at the same pricing structure as any of my other customers. As for their Indo product, they do not purchase that from me. I sell only limited items to them.

With respect to ORA product, I ask that you do not refer to us as "the" Western Canadian Distributor but rather "a" distributor. This doesn't seem like much but is a world of difference.

 

[DBM]

Gee Tim,

In a bad mood? You really seem to know alot about nothing regarding my business, and have taken some shots at Kyle too. I give you kudos for buying from Marivi and have not approached your customers out of respect for doing this, but please get your facts straight before you go and post them on a public message board.

I have supported Marivi for well over a year, when her prices were more expensive than the other exporters. Kyle and Doug did not want to use her because she was too expensive. Now that MAC has betrayed her by certifying the cyaniders she has had to lower her prices and is now attractive to them. Hence they now have done 2 or 3 small orders with her.

Wrong on all accounts Tim. I've started up after a 5 year hiatus in this business and started with an order from Guia, with all the rumours flying around and the fact the fish in my shipment were on the small side I decided to give Marivi a try.
This first shipment with Marivi was my second shipment since starting up again, and I've been purchasing from her on a regular basis since then. Note this was before she expressed here concerns about MAC. In response to me expressing my concerns about the MAC to Marivi, she sent me a note, along with the copy of the letter addressed to the MAC, before Paul Holthus even had a chance to read it. If Marivi and I couldn't agree on better pricing, I would have given up on Philippine until I could be sure I could get net-caught fish at a competitive price. It's not always about the money. Do you see me importing Caribbean, Red Sea, or Indonesian fish? Ask Marivi what I've offered to do for her. We're no help to Marivi if we can't sell her fish due to uncompetitive pricing now, are we?

I continued to give you Kudos for doing things the ethical way, believe it or not, to the folks on this message board, and even to my existing customers; even when your mail-order business directly competed for the same clients as my customers'. I've been more than civil with you, but alas I guess I'm finished with that.

Doug

 

[MaryHM]

Okey dokey guys. The rule here is no finger pointing at specific businesses. Of course my two business seem to be the exception to that rule for some reason, but oh well... If you want to discuss the particulars for every wholesaler in Canada, be my guest- but take it to email please.

Blasted Canadians, always causing trouble...

 

[DBM]

Oops, sorry. (isn't that the Canadian thing to say?)
:wink:

 

[kylen]

Noo doobt aboot it.

 

[Tim Tessier]

Hi Doug and Kyle,

I'll hopefully answer your questions and explain myself at the same time. I am not interested in starting a flame war or getting into "Pet Shop Politics" so this will be my last reply. Hopefully the thread will move back to the original question.

Tim,

Just a couple of points to clarify your posting. The online store to which you referred, has a brick and mortar storefront and they sell retail (very cheaply mind you). I have no say in how they price their product, nor should I. They buy product from me at the same pricing structure as any of my other customers. As for their Indo product, they do not purchase that from me. I sell only limited items to them.

Yes, I know they opened a storefront last year. They can sell their products at whatever price they like, it's their business. They do sell stuff very cheaply, I do not know why, but they do. Glad to see that your fair in your pricing. As for their Indo product, the local transshipper told one of my customers that they were his best customer so he maybe the source?

With respect to ORA product, I ask that you do not refer to us as "the" Western Canadian Distributor but rather "a" distributor. This doesn't seem like much but is a world of difference.

Sure, no problem. I said that because I saw it on your site a while ago. Perhaps it's been changed? I thought it kinda weird that you would say that after I had just received an order from ORA.

Hi Doug,

Gee Tim,

In a bad mood? You really seem to know alot about nothing regarding my business,

Not really.

That is why I did not say anything about your business and only mentioned that you had done 1 or maybe 2 orders with her.

but please get your facts straight before you go and post them on a public message board.

I think I have them straight.

I've started up after a 5 year hiatus in this business and started with an order from Guia, with all the rumours flying around and the fact the fish in my shipment were on the small side I decided to give Marivi a try.

Yes I remember we had talked about Marivi and you mentioned that there was not enough avail for us both to order at the same time. You then mentioned that she was too expensive and faxed me Guai's list. She was definitely a little cheaper than Marivi but not much. I decided to stay with Marivi as I trust her.

This first shipment with Marivi was my second shipment since starting up again

So I was correct that you had only done one shipment with Marivi; and previously one with Guai. Marivi mentioned Kyle had done 2 shipments and with your 1 that is 3 shipments. Perhaps I should not have used the word "small" and I apologize for that. I know my shipments are usually in the 100 to 200kg range which is considered a small shipment compared to a large US wholesaler.

she sent me a note, along with the copy of the letter addressed to the MAC, before Paul Holthus even had a chance to read it.

Yes, I received that letter too and saw your name on the list as well.

We're no help to Marivi if we can't sell her fish due to uncompetitive pricing now, are we?

It is actually the fact that she must now compete on even pricing with all the other exporters that is causing her problems. We are no use to her if we bicker amongst ourselves.

I continued to give you Kudos for doing things the ethical way, believe it or not, to the folks on this message board, and even to my existing customers; even when your mail-order business directly competed for the same clients as my customers'. I've been more than civil with you, but alas I guess I'm finished with that.

I did not think I was taking pot shots at you Doug. Perhaps my choice of the word "small" bothered you and I apologize for that.

Tim

 

[dizzy]

Blasted Canadians, always causing trouble...

It has got to be the ready availability of BC Bud up there. :wink:

 

[naesco]

Hey,y`all.
Did you notice that you are outnumbered, eh?