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Domboski

No Coral Here
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Montclair, NJ
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I have been asked a lot lately about ich and other parasites and what to do to prevent outbreaks. The easiest thing for me to do was answer all of the questions here in one write-up.

MYTHS!!!!!!

The biggest mistake hobbyist make is thinking they don't have ich or other parasites because they "can't see it". Sight is not a good indicator whether a fish or coral is carrying parasites. I've also heard people say I haven't had ich for years so I do not have it.

Another myth is because the fish was taken from a system with copper it has to be ich free. Unfortunately this is not the case. #1 the copper ratio has to be at a specific level for a certain amount of time to kill off the ich. You can introduce a fish into a system with copper and sell it two days later and it will still be carrying!!! #2 most medications require a fish to be in copper for at least two weeks. Every time a new fish is introduced to the system, the cycle starts over again.

Why are these myths?

Well for many parasites, you only see them when they reach epidemic levels and begin to overwhelm a fish. This could be due to stress of a specific fish or a new host that creates a population boom for the parasites. For anyone who keeps reptiles what I am about to write will sound familiar. Reptiles in the wild carry parasites for their entire life. The parasites are barely noticed by the reptile as there are many sufficient hosts in the wild so there is a balanced equilibrium between the host and the parasite. If you take one of those reptiles and enclose them in a glass box (tank), in time, they will be completely overwhelmed by parasites and begin to weaken as the parasites have only one sufficient host. During that process, either the host (the reptile) dies or the parasite population reaches an equilibrium by die off that sustains their life and no longer overwhelms their host and they live on. Unfortunately, more often than not, the host dies before equilibrium is reached.

Same thing happens in our fish tanks. Keeping to ich, healthy fish will fight ich off and keep the balance in check (Never does it completely disappear on its own). Introduce a fish who is easily stressed or causes stress to another fish already in the tank and boom, the equilibrium is offset and ich begins to populate much faster than the other fish can fight off. Even the healthiest of fish become overwhelmed in these circumstances.

How can parasites like ich be transferred to your tank?

The obvious way is by introducing fish that are carrying it which IMO is almost all fish that have not been treated specifically to rid them of parasites. A not-so obvious way is through water transfer. Water transferred using nets from tanks infected with parasites, water transfer through corals being introduced to the tank or even live rock and sand.

What can you do?

Be careful when you introduce anything to your tank :duh:. Make sure your system is QT'd and that everything you add to it has been QT'd. It sounds a lot easier to do than it is. As many people have cautioned on this board, it is much better to take your time setting up a new marine system. Let the tank run for two months before you introduce fish. QT all fish before you add them to your tank (many methods for this). Dip all of your corals and try not to add any water from another persons system. If you want to add new rock or sand make sure you have it running in a tub for at least six weeks to kill off any fish-hosting parasites.

I know I wrote this quickly but I wanted to throw this out there for people to keep in mind. It benefits us and the fish to be aware. If you have any questions post here and I'll try to respond. I'm sure knowledgeable members and the mods will chime in as well.

Hopefully I answered most of the questions sent my way :)
 

lo7100

Advanced Reefer
Location
Staten island
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Great Info! I have a question. If a new fish is put in a QT for 3 weeks without medication (fish has no sign of parasites). Can we say the fish is safe from parasite? If this is not the case, should we add copper to the QT for 2 weeks even though the fish has no sign of parasites?
In my case, I had the tank fishless for 6 weeks and QT'd the fishes with copper for 3 weeks. When I put the fish (hippo) back to DT, ick showed up in a few days. I did the whole process 2 times until I gave up. I guess I never understand how the QT works.
 

Domboski

No Coral Here
Location
Montclair, NJ
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Well there is more detail needed to answer your questions than I have time to write so I'll summarize this for you.

#1- Putting a fish in QT for 3 weeks without meds is not going to kill parasites

#2- Using copper requires a daily check on the level in the QT tank. You can't just rely on the dosage instructions because every system is different and many things absorb copper that may drop the level below whats necessary to kill ich. My guess is your levels were never high enough for the time necessary to kill ich and/or break the cycle.
 

marrone

The All Powerful OZ
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No, you shouldn't put any medication in the QT until you determine what and if the fish actually has something. Copper works against certain things, ich being one, but not against everything. You want to treat a fish with the correct medication and when it has something and not before.
 

Domboski

No Coral Here
Location
Montclair, NJ
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Thanks Dom! Should I put copper in the QT for 2 weeks even though there is no sign of Ich? I'm afraid it'll put too much stress to the fish.

It depends on the fish. I don't like treating tangs and other types of fish with copper. I used to but now I use hyposalinity. For triggers, damsels and other hardy fish I use copper.

I disagree with Mike about when to treat but that doesn't mean he is wrong. hyposalinity is much better for fish and less intrusive but takes much more time. All of the fish I treat with hypo are in it for 6 weeks.

Personally I prefer to treat my fish before I add them to my display regardless of visual signs of parasites or not to avoid ever having a problem in my main system. I've had problems in the past and finally got the hint :lol2: As I mentioned, you dont have to see ich to know fish are carrying it just like your case with the hippo tang. Not only that, its a fact all fish carry parasites. Its just a matter of which ones. I treat all my personal fish for flukes and ich and would recommend that to everyone.
 

lo7100

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Staten island
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OK. I know that all my fishes have ich but they have no sign of it. I know that because I had a Ich outbreak a while ago. Now they live in the system for a year with no sign of Ich. How can I QT the fishes and make sure they don't carry Ich?
 

House of Laughter

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OK. I know that all my fishes have ich but they have no sign of it. I know that because I had a Ich outbreak a while ago. Now they live in the system for a year with no sign of Ich. How can I QT the fishes and make sure they don't carry Ich?

Much like the bacteria we carry around on our hands, in our mouths, on our scalp etc, fish live with ich in their gills etc. It's just the way of life for them. When they are healthy and relatively stress-free, it won't manifest itself.

It's just there, only a matter of making it worse or providing an environment for it not to manifest.

HTH

House
 

Domboski

No Coral Here
Location
Montclair, NJ
Rating - 100%
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What do you do if you literally dont have room for the money to set up a QT tank?

Buy from reputable retailers and stay away from ich prone fish as much as possible. I used to follow the "let the strong survive" model but when you start investing money in expensive fish why take the chance? Not to mention its probably not moral to treat fish in that way.

There are a lot of things you can do to be careful with no qt but of course none of them are going to guarantee there wont be a problem:

1- Think carefully about your fish mix. Make sure your tankmates are compatible with minimal risk. For example, don't keep two tangs in the same tank!

2- Keep with hardy fish. Clowns for example.

3- Take your time adding fish! Do not add several fish in a short period of time. When you get a new fish, give it a few weeks to establish itself before you add another.

4- Keep your fish well fed with a varied diet. For example, you can feed tangs frozen mysis 3 times a day and they'll be fat but not necessarily healthy.

5- Keep your water params pristine

6- Invest in a UV light. One with the proper wattage to kill free floating parasites and can turn your tank over at least 1.5 times an hour.

There are many more things you can do but as mentioned previously none are guarantees. Add the wrong fish at the wrong time and you'll have an outbreak.
 

Domboski

No Coral Here
Location
Montclair, NJ
Rating - 100%
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I wanted to add a PBT too :( The most susceptible fish ever.

Maybe will stick with a hippo

Yeah unfortunately. Powder Blues, Powder Browns, and Achilles are major ich magnets. The best thing to do with them is to buy an aquarium established specimen and make it the first fish in your mature system (Mature as in ran for a few months before adding a fish).
 
Last edited:

mqur1963

Advanced Reefer
Location
nj
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what happen if you just add some dead sand or dry rock they will be live almost same time insted waiting 6 week .
 

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