New ORA clown Strains

[ryangrieder]

personally i feel they are starting to turn away from the whole clown look all together. there cool and all but i dont know...id rather just stick with a true perc or snowflake. they need more white. or at least a semi mis bar looking stripe.

 

[Wes]

I suspect alot of inbreeding goes on in nature as well. I don't think a clownfish will go on a journey and leave all of it's brothers and sisters in search of a mate who has different parents.

I could be wrong but I don't think fish care about that sort of thing.


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[fernandokng]

I wonder what would happen if I bought a picasso and released it into the wild? Of course I wouldn't because:

1. I don't have that kind of money.
2. That is just irresponsible.

However, it's just as irresponsible as those people creating these fish in the first place. I can't imagine what type of effects these cute little guys would have on the eco system if they happened to get out into the ocean. For example, there was a story on the lion fish that got released into the atlantic due to a hurricane, and now overpopulation of this fish is causing havoc to the local habitat (google search for article).

I think there's always a balance. But then again, when is something "too much"? I'd like to think we're all socially responsible, and not do something that is not in the best interest of the wider population.

But then again, we all have different perspectives and will never agree on what the right balance is. Personally, once the platinum clowns came out, I thought it was too much, and there was no longer a balance. The more "designer species" ORA comes out with, the more the balance will shift to the right. But again, that's just my opinion.

We can look beyond just the clown - I wonder how many people think cloning human is okay?

Anyway, I digress.

 

[Wes]

Cloning would be awesome. I would keep a clone of myself in a medically induced coma for spare parts..

I could take up smoking again and drink like a fish.


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[noodleman]

if we didn't play with species, we wouldn't have many of the things we have today like the modern cow, wheat plants, certain fruits, and especially medicines It's ok to love or hate them, just dont think its rare for these types of things to occur

 

[Wes]

Yeah if you think selective breeding is morally wrong you should probably go vegan.


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[Ret_Talbot]

Hey, Guys. Good discussion here. I have written a bit about the so-called designer clownfish craze in the past (I'm a writer and photographer who frequently covers the marine aquarium industry). I think it's important to point out that all the clowns being discussed in this thread are not the "same type" of designer clowns. Misbarring and other variants often do exist in the wild, but these fishes frequently don't survive because the variant affects predation and/or mating. For example, the PNG (Papua New Guinea) lightning maroon clownfish mentioned earlier (and pictured here) in this thread is a wild-collected maroon clownfish variant; it is NOT the result of selective breeding in captivity. Many of the "designer clownfishes" we see on the market, in fact, originated from wild-collected broodstock.

It's what a breeder does with that broodstock that often encourages the ethical discussions. For example, is it ethical to breed for an anomaly? Is it ethical to manipulate the fish's environment to increase the chances of producing an anomaly (in addition to genetics, we also know environmental factors can significantly impact the frequency of misbarring and other anomalies)? As such, we have a host of ethical issues here that exist along a spectrum from "not such a big deal" to "absolutely abhorrent" depending on your ethics.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[DHaut]

i've yet to see a convincing argument against selective breeding of clowns. especially in this thread.

 

[beerfish]

I don't have a problem with what they're doing. I have a problem with calling them "designer fish".

Animals are not designer accessories.

 

[jaa1456]

If these fish were ever re-introduced I think they would take over the wild clowns habitat. They have been bred to be stronger and able to fight off disease better. THat lightning clown could be a inbred clown, Maybe it is from a pocket of brother and sister clowns that haven't really left their birth area. And I do think breeding designer fish needs to stop. What happens if the reefs get destroyed and you try to restock it with these "designer fish" Not saying clowns are endangered, just a what if. Animals are not handbags and cars, and should not be treated that way. How do you think I got that Yorkie as my avatar? A girl wanted designer dogs and I rescued him and his brother after she wanted to put them to sleep at 6 months old.

 

[beerfish]

Animals are not handbags and cars, and should not be treated that way.

Did hell just freeze over? Jaa and I agree on something!? :headache:

 

[Ret_Talbot]

If these fish were ever re-introduced I think they would take over the wild clowns habitat. They have been bred to be stronger and able to fight off disease better. THat lightning clown could be a inbred clown, Maybe it is from a pocket of brother and sister clowns that haven't really left their birth area. And I do think breeding designer fish needs to stop. What happens if the reefs get destroyed and you try to restock it with these "designer fish" Not saying clowns are endangered, just a what if. Animals are not handbags and cars, and should not be treated that way. How do you think I got that Yorkie as my avatar? A girl wanted designer dogs and I rescued him and his brother after she wanted to put them to sleep at 6 months old.

I was in PNG when the PNG lightning maroon clownfish was collected (I was researching a story on the SEASMART Program for CORAL Magazine), and I can pretty much guarantee that PNG lightning maroon clownfish is NOT inbred. There were no others in the vicinity, although that is the second maroon clown with the "lightning" variation to be collected from that reef (the first was in 2008). It is now being bred in captivity by award-winning marine aquarium breeder Matt Pedersen. He is breeding it with a "normal" maroon clownfish from the same reef, which is the best way to go if you are thinking longterm.

I think I disagree that many "designer" clownfishes would take over the reef if they were released onto the reefs where the broodstock was collected. This is conjecture, of course, but I suspect predation might be high and the number of interested mates low. It is an interesting question though.

Good on you to rescue that dog!

 

[NYreefNoob]

clowns

thinking tank bred fish wouldnt last in the wild, yes they have become more resistant to disease, but disease is no where near the disease's in the ocean, personally all 4 of my clowns are messed up, 2 black occ both misbarred and 2 true perc mis bar, which one of is my favorite he has his full front bar but the middle and back bars barely make it over his back and he is filling in nicely on his black, my smaller one has yet to get any of the black and hoping to see if one day the black occ and trues bred

 

[DHaut]

those of you against the whole "fish as accessories" mindset, please answer this: why do you keep fish at all? seems like there's a lot of arguing semantics going on without anyone drawing the logical connection between owning a selectively-bred fish and owning any fish at all.

 

[fernandokng]

Like anything in life, it's about balance.

When is something too much?

those of you against the whole "fish as accessories" mindset, please answer this: why do you keep fish at all? seems like there's a lot of arguing semantics going on without anyone drawing the logical connection between owning a selectively-bred fish and owning any fish at all.

 

[aquascaper82]

those of you against the whole "fish as accessories" mindset, please answer this: why do you keep fish at all? seems like there's a lot of arguing semantics going on without anyone drawing the logical connection between owning a selectively-bred fish and owning any fish at all.

it's not as black and white as either keep fish or don't keep fish because of an opinion that someone makes.
why can't someone keep fish and still believe in something?
are you gonna give up your car and start walking and biking to work and everywhere else because it's bad for the environment? but you can still turn off the lights in your house when you're not using it and use less water whenever you can right?

 

[Wes]

Like anything in life, it's about balance.

When is something too much?

Maybe it's too much when the chickens are bred to have so much breast meat their legs are not strong enough to stand for more than a few seconds?

Selective breeding a fish to have a certain color is not a big deal. Tank bred fish are good for the hobby, period.


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[beerfish]

those of you against the whole "fish as accessories" mindset, please answer this: why do you keep fish at all? seems like there's a lot of arguing semantics going on without anyone drawing the logical connection between owning a selectively-bred fish and owning any fish at all.

My problem isn't with keeping fish. My problem is the idea of a "designer" fish that will be "in" this season. What happens to the fish next season? There are tons of "designer" dogs in shelters right now because they're no longer in style. (WHAT!? You have to take care of these things!?)

Maybe we should breed them so that they have 6 month life spans... this way you don't have to ditch your fish when the fall line comes out.

 

[jaa1456]

Tank bred are good and they should be kept as they were found. Not inbred and having the same genes for generations. I think the lightning clown is a wild inbred clown, Notice you have only found 2 and not hundreds of them, because in the wild inbreeding is usually kept at a minimum. While captive fish are bred however the breeder wants to.

 

[Wes]

Semantics. You don't like the term "designer". I get it. I don't think you have to worry about these fish ending up in shelters.

If we have a homeless clownfish problem we can just send them to the Gordon's fisherman factory and turn them into fish sticks.


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