Icky Ich

[MikeyZO]

Ok, so I'm new here and to the hobby. My reef tank is a little under 6 months old and consists of the following:

36gal bow
ProClear Pro75 Wet/dry filter with protien skimmer
50 Lbs liverock
2 Ocellairs Clowns
Purple Firefish
Pygmy Angel
Royal Gramma
Cleaner Shrimp
Several snails and hermits
Hammer Coral
Zoa Polyps
Metallic Green Star Polyps
Toadstool Leather
Pom Pom (Pulsing) Xenia

So far I have not lost any fish, corals, or shrimp. The only recent problem I've had is that my royal gramma seems to have an outbreak of ich. Now one person had mentioned water parameters and changes. I've had my water tested for everything under the sun by two seperate reef stores in my area (2 seperate places that are fish/reef only and have been in business for a very long time, so I assume they somewhat know what they are talking about), and both said my water is right on the money. As for changes, I do a 5 gal/week change with Tropic Marin salt. And I make sure I heat the water up to the temp of the tank before changing. I know that ich is usually caused by some sort of stress. I also have not seen any other fish bother my gramma. During the day he comes out and swims around, still has a hell of an appetite (speaking of, I feed Formula 2 flakes in the day and garlic soaked mysis at night) and I never see anyone bother him. At night he hides in a little cave under the rock. The only thing that seems weird to me is that the lifecycle of this ich seems to be much different then what I've read trying to research this. I will wake up, feed the flakes and see him and he will look fantastic. Then I will go to work, come home and he's covered in spots. Then by the next morning, he looks fine again. It seems very quick to me. I should also add that I'm currently on a Kick Ich treatment which was advised to me by both reef stores. Short of this, I'm totally at a standstill. I've read that the only real ich cure is quarrantine with copper and let the main tank cycle for 6-8 weeks to kill whats in there. Is there any suggestions people can give me to at least try to strengthen his immunity or something or keep the ich somewhat under control? None of my other fish have even one spot on them, and they never have... and I'd like to keep it that way. Any and all help will be appreciated (short of a QT tank cuz It would be hell to break the tank down and get the fish out.... unless it becomes an absolute necessity lol). Thanks in advance!!

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Are any wires on any of your equipment worn or nicked?

And here is a little advice never medicate the display tank, always use a quarantine/hospital tank. To boast immune systems of the fish use a garlic extract like Kent makes and put a few drops on the food you use.

 

[MikeyZO]

Yeah, I know medicating the tank isnt the best of ideas, but it is supposed to be reef safe and as of yet has not affected any inverts or corals. And I do use a garlic extract on the mysis for about 30 min before feeding.

 

[KathyC]

I've had my water tested for everything under the sun by two seperate reef stores in my area (2 seperate places that are fish/reef only and have been in business for a very long time, so I assume they somewhat know what they are talking about), and both said my water is right on the money.

I should also add that I'm currently on a Kick Ich treatment which was advised to me by both reef stores.

The second statement proves to me that neither store knows what they are talking about.
Please stop using the Kick Ich. You won't find anyone here that advocates use of this product and you are doing your tank more harm than good.

I also doubt you're encountered a type of ich with a different life cycle that is new to the marine world

Do you have any pics of the Gramma? Of the tank?
When I was a noob, I was convinced that my gramma had ich..sometimes. Of course, that is impossible.
Half of the time my Gramma still looks like it has ich..but I have since gotten used to the fact that she is forever going into her little hidey-hole (they are protective of their sleeping space) and usually has little bits of detritus, vermited snail goo and whatnot stuck on her when she comes back out. But she definitely doesn't have ich.

Is the Gramma flashing (rubbing himself frequently against rock or the sand)? Is it's breathing labored?

You said the fish looks totally fine part of the day and is eating well - right?
I wouldn't treat the tank for anything at this time. And in the event that the fish actually does have ich...and you're SURE it has ich...the best treatment (IMO..and I have a LOT of opinions regarding ich..lol) is hyposalinity

 

[MikeyZO]

It was actually recommended to me also by Dr Fosters and Smith in an email I sent them asking their opinion on how to handle ich in a reef tank without a QT tank. But regardless of which, I dont think its detritus and snail goo because the spots are on the pectoral fins and tail as well as all over his body. And yes, I have seen him flashing agains the rocks. I havent noticed any labored breathing as of yet, and yeah, he still eats fine. If I were to find a way to get him out without tearing the entire tank apart (which I REALLY dont wanna do) and assuming he survives the stress of being moved, I would have to move all fish into a QT with hyposalinity (or copper for that matter) in order to assure that when they are moved back they dont get another outbreak, correct?

 

[KathyC]

Correct.
For 6-8 weeks.
Either hypo or copper, but you can't do both.
The main tank would remain devoid of fish for the entire period.
If you're sure, I wouldn't delay getting the QT tank going.
How long have you seen this for?

A pic would be priceless, both when he looks good and not.

Info from Dr's F & S like that disappoints me...

 

[MikeyZO]

I'll try to get a pic soon.

 

[tommy818]

i would not treat the tank with anything if the fish is eating and u say it is i would not be overly concerned. its also very odd only one fish has it.

 

[fluidimagery]

Not to start a debate here but the fish you have in your tank are all hardy if they're healthy. I feel that a healthy fish can shake the ich on it's own without the intervention of copper or hypo. When I first started I'd go through this same stuff and try to treat a fish if I thought it had ich... endless threads etc. Everytime I had made the attempt to treat a fish that I thought had a problem I wound up killing it. (heater died once, treated copper wrong another). About 6 months ago I had purchased a 1" Blue Tang from a reputable LFS. Looked good at the store... watched it eat so I bought it. Sure enough, within 2 weeks it had ich, I thought here we go again (these are the times I hate this hobby). I just left it in the tank and fed it various frozen foods and pellets soaked in garlic and the ich would disappear and reappear less on the fish for about 2 months until it was completely gone. None of the other 10 fish in the tank caught it and the tang's been perfectly fine since (now 4inches)

So, I don't want to tell you to do the wrong thing, just letting you know my experience.

 

[tommy818]

i agree either the fish will fight it on its own or it wont

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Since you also use dry food, switch it to one that has garlic in it as well. You cannot soak dry food with garlic extreme.

 

[House of Laughter]

firefish and grammas are not the best combination in that small of a tank - allot of firefish come from Bali and and are not captured very well - stressing them out for sure and adding a gramma doesn't help if they are getting at each other - ESPECIALLY since they are the same colors (basically speaking)

perhaps too many fish in there for a new tank - howe long has the tank been running?

House

 

[MikeyZO]

I feed Formula 2 flakes which does contain garlic. As for the firefish and gramma, they've been in the tank for about 2 months together (the gramma for about 4, the firefish for 2). They both have their own seperate cave under different rocks, and they dont seem to bother each other during the day that I've seen. The tank is just under 6 months old.

 

[MikeyZO]

Just an update... Although I took Kathy's advice of a QT VERY seriously, I decided to wait it out and see what happened. I did see one of my two ocellaris clowns chase the RG (dubbed Donatella by my girlfriend) once, but that was it. I also noticed that its tail was getting a bit ripped up, either from being picked on or from flashing. Anyway, the ich seems to be affecting Donatella less and less and in the past two weeks I've only seen a few spots here and there which was a far cry from the daily complete covering I had seen in the past. She also doesnt seem to be flashing anywhere near as much, and instead of the jagged rocks, she flashes on something smoother like the thermometer or the pump wires. I tried to get a few pics but alas, she never stood still long enough for my cheezey digital camera to take a good picture. And her tail fin is growing back quite nicely. So, as I assume there is still ich in the tank and will probably always be, it seems that Donatella's immune system finally got a nice boost (perhaps from the garlic extract I've been adding) to finally fight the ich off. Thanks to everyones help, including lazibonez and kathyc. And KathyC, if I do decide in the near future to set up a QT tank, be sure that I will be PMing you. LOL.

Thanks again!!!

 

[KathyC]

That's all great news Mikey! What you have had happen isn't all that common, but it is common enough. Sometimes we overeact and there are times when we should step back and watch what is happening and be at the ready to react. Some fish do manage to fight it off, usually when it is a mild case and they are in excellent health to start with.
Some say they become immune afterwards...I'd still keep a watchful eye

Always a good idea to take a close look at each fish you have each day..while ich kills in the gills, the cysts are most easily seen on the fins. With the $ we've all sunk into these tanks we should be able to free up a few minutes a day to take a careful look each day!
Best of luck to you, I'm very happy about your outcome!!