Safe to use Salifert test kits???

[kimoyo]

During my regular perusal of RC I ran into a post that referenced the following thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1117617&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

I haven't had to worry about measuring for several months now but since I'm starting up my tank this week this caught my attention. I pretty much only buy Salifert test kits but this has me worried.

I only got thru a few pages of that thread but no one mentioned this here. Anyone got any info? Did people start using a different brand of test kit?

 

[gnatp2]

Oh man. this is no good. i just bought a new salifert alk kit that i've been trusting. Time to go test my test kit.

Thanks for bringing this up Paul.
Nate

 

[kris]

This was a big deal for zeo users using Seachem salt.They were getting high Alk readings from all the Borate in the salt. Some guys just subtract 1.5 dkh and claim that's the real number. Try the cheapy API test kits.

 

[ming]

A very limited number of the KH/Alk kit reagent KH have very likely been contaminated in such a way that it would give a high false value.

Each batch consists of several thousands of bottles and the best possible estimate is that only 10 - 50 bottles out of a batch of several thousand have been contaminated.

So only a very, very small number of reagents (but yes, even one is too many )

The two batches very likely affected are:

1106-C and 1106-F , the batch number can be found on the label of the large KH reagent bottle.

Most of the contaminated 1106-C were, luckily, already returned before even getting to the end user, very recently.

I also think that most of the contaminated 1106-F have now been located.


The nature of the contamination would be such that a limited number of bottles as a group would be contaminated untill the contamination would be exhausted.

This also shows that there was or is NO batch related issue, that is a whole batch being bad.


We have taken measures so that this, very difficult to find cause, can not happen again.


To give you an indication, we received a total of approx 45 requests for replacements in the past period. This demonstrates, also given that Reefcentral is a very large board, that the number of contaminated reagents is indeed very, very small.


Besides that the number of 45 requests also is in part from people who were unsure and since we did not have the information we have right now we did also honor their request.


I will now have also more time to concentrate on some other questions such as some differences between different good batches/good reagents. Most of them can be explained by the accuracy and precision and the value range used for calibration. However, I'll start tomorrow another thread about this last paragraph.


Please allow me to give you all a very big thumbs up because most if not all of you were and are very polite, very patient, did help me further by answering questions, did try to think together with us and came with many suggestions. I’m very, very proud to have you as a customer!

Thanks!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1185538

 

[kimoyo]

Ming,

In that same thread a few post down people with different batch numbers had issues. It seems like its a more widespread issue and not sure if the test kits can be counted on especially considering Habib's several month absence. I read that post first and then found the larger thread later which paints a different picture. This went on for months going back to February from what I found while briefly searching. It could have been longer.

Are there other reliable good test kits?

 

[kimoyo]

This was a big deal for zeo users using Seachem salt.They were getting high Alk readings from all the Borate in the salt. Some guys just subtract 1.5 dkh and claim that's the real number. Try the cheapy API test kits.

This was a different issue concerning seachem salt.

 

[Solace Aquatics LLC]

I am tossing my Salifert alkalinity kits.

What does everyone suggest is the next best?

 

[gnatp2]

I just read the entire thread.
It was nice that Habib took the time answering everyone's questions, but his answers were not sufficient for me.

In the end here's what I got out of it:
Habib seems to say "Everything is fine. Not sure what everyone is complaining about. see! look at my spreadsheet. Sure, maybe a couple bottles have a prob, but my spreadsheet and all my tests say that everything is fine. "

Everyone else: "Um..... can't you hear me? I'm getting huge differences on your test kits. "

Tested mine this morning.
Kit 1: 7.4 dKH
Box expiration date: 06-2010
KH: 0505-A
KH IND: 0505-C


Kit 2: 9.0 dKH
Box expiration date: 04-2012
KH: 0207-D
KH IND: 0407-B

He's very polite in the thread, but people are getting big differences and he hasn't given a satisfactory answer (imo) as to why.
Nate

 

[Bob 1000]

I have dreaded looking at the thread because I have been getting slightly higher alk reading while calcium stays the same at 430...And never test for mag I just watch the color in my corals and as long as they are bright I'm happy...

 

[gnatp2]

I have dreaded looking at the thread because I have been getting slightly higher alk reading while calcium stays the same at 430...And never test for mag I just watch the color in my corals and as long as they are bright I'm happy...

That is prob an entirely diff issue if you've been using the same test kit. alk tends to swing around a lot more than calcium.

 

[gnatp2]

So a bunch of us have gone from Salifert Phosphate to Hanna meters...... Anyone know if a reliable alk meter? Time to spend some more money on a piece of equipment.

 

[Bob 1000]

That is prob an entirely diff issue if you've been using the same test kit. alk tends to swing around a lot more than calcium.

Thanks, I will work on this, this week...I havent been in my tank this week, but my tank is usually good to go about 1 week without parameters going all out of wack...

 

[KathyC]

I also read the entire thread and also the thread Habib provided the link too.

Seems Salifert is saying there is an issue with Alk kits that have the following codes on the Large KH Reagent bottles:
1106C
1106F
------------

-Codes on the KH-Ind bottle only make a difference in how dark/light your solution is.
-Habib mentions that the Large KH Reagent bottle needs to be tightly closed as that solution contains water (and acid) and evaporation of that water can affect the outcome of the test.

It looks like Salifert is replacing those kits to hobbyists who write to them..slowly, but they are replacing them.

They are also adding a reference solution to the newly manufactured kits to test for accuracy. Not sure if they actually added the color reference cards or not, but it seems they do plan to do so in the future. Salifert is also making a movie to demonstrated the correct use of the kits.

My take on this is..yes, they had an issue with 2 batches of reagent on the Alk kits..they recalled some & are replacing others as hobbyists contact them.


On Alk kits NOT from the batches with the issues...some folks got higher than expected reading, and some got lower than expected readings..user error also seems to be a factor in all this.
Habib posted (on page 6 of the RC thread) pics of the actual color changes you would expect to see during the test (though he admits the 3rd pic should be slightly 'pinker'.)
Their directions for interpretting the color change leaves MUCH to be desired (on all of their kits...), so when running my test I do the following..when I first see a color change I turn my eyes away from the vial and when I look back if my first impression is...well that isn't blue but it sure isn't pink..I make a note of the reading. If when I add the next drop I can clearly see the color is pink/orange..then I use that reading as my result.
If I consistently do my testing this way on all of my kits..I can tell if I have a fluctuation in my tank parameters.

I also half wonder how many folks who posted on that thread are filling the syringe to 5ml, when you are only supposed to use 4ml of water for the test.
The size of the 'drops'? Could be..I always let the first drop fall onto a papertowel in hopes that the ones I am using for testing are consistent in size..maybe a little anal of me, but we use such small quanties of each of the reagents/water that 1/2 of a drop might make a large difference in the result.

Point is..even if after testing you should be looking at your tank/corals and if you see a problem..do a water change..or react in some manner. It doesn't make sense to balance the health of your tank on a single test kit result.

I like the signature line of Joe Yaiullo of Atlantis Marine World..."Why do we ONLY RE-TEST our water when the results are NOT what we want them to be?!"

 

[tripstank]

Nooooooooo!

Thank god for backups!

Who do we contact about our bad kit?

 

[jhale]

Paul I've been using the lamotte alk kit for the past year, I'm very happy with it.
It gives you the reading in ppm, I use this link to convert to dkh, http://www.saltyzoo.com/SaltyCalcs/AlkConv.php

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/445/cid/57

 

[kimoyo]

Kathy,

I don't know. Alkalinity is one of those things that goes bad quickly after you notice it and sometimes corals/frags don't recover from those issues. It doesn't buffer as well as calcium. And it doesn't seem isolated to those specific batches. Its kinda tuff when you depend on these kits to work well.


Jhale,

Thanks, I think lamotte it will be. Are you using lamotte for the other kits?

 

[jhale]

Paul, I'm not using other lamotte kits,
for CA i'm using salifert, mg is elos, and po4 is the hanna meter.
I like elos for the other tests, they are simple and fast, and are accurate from
what I can tell.

 

[bigbris1]

I stopped using Salifert kits back when I stopped perusing RC years ago due to some funky readings from a batch of IO.

Don't you guys just trust that your parameters are OK to a point after so many years? I mean, by this point, you should know what your consumption versus your dosing equates to & adjust accordingly. I mean, because of the relationship between Ca & Alk.

I test once in a blue just because.

I don't believe in all the meters & what not. I believe you can just look at your tank & know when it's good & when it's not.

 

[tripstank]

Regular testing is the only way to go. Marine Biology is a SCIENCE. Since we all are to a point a bit of Marine Biologist, I think it is our responsibility to test and test accurately. It should be our pursuit to get accurate and reliable readings.

Leaving it to the stars should not be an option.

:backtotop Where can we find more about getting new reagents?

 

[ShaunW]

Don't you guys just trust that your parameters are OK to a point after so many years? I mean, by this point, you should know what your consumption versus your dosing equates to & adjust accordingly. I mean, because of the relationship between Ca & Alk.

I test once in a blue just because.

I don't believe in all the meters & what not. I believe you can just look at your tank & know when it's good & when it's not.

I agree with you. I can look at my tank and know whether it is good or out of whack. With the amount of SPS I have growing my Alk/Ca levels change alot (I have to adjust the consumption to the upside). While I do test once a month, I use the biological reactions from my corals as my ultimate guide.

BTW not many people can claim "so many years" in the hobby, thus they may not understand where your coming from. My tank has been set up for 12 years, I know its "faces" well.